Never trust your life to a single piece of gear; what about the PAS?

We always hear this, and it is  tenant of anchor-building, and lead climbing in general. But it seems to be violated all the time; why aren't we ever taught to backup personal anchors? When cleaning sport routes, standing at the belay, etc.

Belay loop, rope, belay device….. lots of non-redundant items.
PAS anchors are very strong, clipped into a second piece at the anchor it’s bombproof.

There are even times where you're trusting your life (or at least limb) to zero pieces of gear, i.e., you're in a no-fall zone and your climbing is your only point of protection. It's just important to recognize critical non-redundant components as such and regularly inspect those components to ensure they will function as intended when you need them to.

I think the short answer is that most "rules" in climbing are there for you as you learn and that they then become optional or predicated on your situation.

You do in fact trust your life to just one thing many times during lots of sport climbing: one rope, one belay device. A lot of your ticks are for sport climbing. So I'll mention that there are great videos that show how to clean anchors while not relying just on your PAS. The AAC "Know the Ropes" video on cleaning sport anchors is super helpful LINK. Frankly, my current favorite method of tethering in is to use a quickdraw that I clip through the quickdraws I used to build my anchor. I am backed up then by my tether and the rope that is still running through the anchor. I then pass the rope through the fixed gear, and when I retie I am using both anchors to be lowered. For sport climbing, I'm not relying on just 1 piece of gear (other than just the 1 rope, belayer, etc). 

But there are def situations that  I do rely on just one piece of gear. Or I give a hip belay where I'm not even really relying on an anchor - those are not sport situations

Nick's right, and also, plenty of people are using a two-arm personal anchor or installing a catastrophe clove hitch on a loop of slack going to their knot. I use a single arm Connect Adjust, but if the master point is going to be a cluttered nightmare or there's going to be a lot of clipping and moving and unclipping and reclipping, I'll often pop a clove hitch on a locker up on a bomber piece of the anchor. 

I think of this as a single piece of gear where the condition or placement quality has any uncertainty to it. This doesn't include personal gear (i.e., harness, belay device, rope etc) but would include a trad gear placement or a bolt.

In other situations, I will consider my climbing ability to be one of my redundant pieces of protection (i.e. standing on a ledge).

what about the rope?

Clip your PAS to one bolt or quick link. Then clip a quickdraw from a different loop on your PAS to the second bolt or quick link.

If chains connect the two bolts, just clip the chains.

For multipitch trad, leader clips the shelf then places the belay device on the master point. Follower follows up and clips the master point. I’ve seen too many people not go direct on all three pieces of gear & just clip one piece that’s not part of the loop. If that piece were to fail and you’re leaning back - bye bye

Michael Rush wrote:

For multipitch trad, leader clips the shelf then places the belay device on the master point. Follower follows up and clips the master point. 

But if you're flipping leads, make sure that you leave a biner on the MP before the new leader starts the next pitch. You don't want them to factor 2 on the shelf without a biner on the MP to stop the knot from rolling off.

Personally, I just make sure the next pitch's belayer goes on the MP. The previous pitch's leader doesn't matter as much. 

Need to double up on the carabiners, rope and belay devise too.  

I aways climb with 2 GriGris, which I call GriGriGriGri.

The added benefit is that I can rap on 2 strands of rope to get my rope back on a multi pitch.  ;)

Joe Hollowed wrote:

We always hear this, and it is  tenant of anchor-building, and lead climbing in general. But it seems to be violated all the time; why aren't we ever taught to backup personal anchors? When cleaning sport routes, standing at the belay, etc.

A subtlety often missed in the redundancy discussion is that there is a major exception for unquestionably bomber components. The rule isn't that all components need redundancy - it is that components should be redundant or unquestionably bomber. A 3 foot diameter healthy tree? No need to back that up. A belay loop in good condition? No need to back the up. A strand of climbing rope clove hitched to a locker to connect you to the anchor? No need to back that up.

So the question with a PAS is whether it meets this unquestionably bomber standard. I don't use or own a PAS, so I don't have an answer. But it sounds like the answer is probably yes, it does meet this standard.

I’ve used a PAS for years and view it just like tying in direct w the rope bc it’s 1 really strong piece. But I don’t dynamically stress the PAS. And I don’t clip 2 different loops of the PAS into the anchor. The end loops rotate so wear is distributed. But where it’s girth  hitched to my harness never changes. (Read about Todd Skinner). I’ve always felt if my PAS fails it’ll be at the harness end where there is no redundancy, which is why I inspect it. And if I’m not comfortable w just the PAS I’ll use a bight of rope too, but know I’m back on the PAS only eventually.

Why don't you climb with two single ropes? 

Because it is not necessary. 

I made my own custom 36 foot POS. 

That way I can get further from the anchor in order to hear whatever nonsense my partner is yelling

I know I’m late to the party that is this thread, but I figured I’d share a newbies perspective. Most of the responses here seem to center on determining what is “worth” backing up. Since I can’t always tell what is bomber enough to stand alone, I try to back up anything I assemble, clip into, or otherwise create once my feet leave the ground. That includes my personal anchor, which I always back up with a sling to another bolt and/or clip into my quad-anchor. Does that seem reasonable?

Dre Durant wrote:

I know I’m late to the party that is this thread, but I figured I’d share a newbies perspective. Most of the responses here seem to center on determining what is “worth” backing up. Since I can’t always tell what is bomber enough to stand alone, I try to back up anything I assemble, clip into, or otherwise create once my feet leave the ground. That includes my personal anchor, which I always back up with a sling to another bolt and/or clip into my quad-anchor. Does that seem reasonable?

I'm not entirely clear on what you do...at your belay, there's no need to 'back up a PAS' as long as it's clipped in to a solid anchor with a locker. 

Dre Durant wrote:

I know I’m late to the party that is this thread, but I figured I’d share a newbies perspective. Most of the responses here seem to center on determining what is “worth” backing up. Since I can’t always tell what is bomber enough to stand alone, I try to back up anything I assemble, clip into, or otherwise create once my feet leave the ground. That includes my personal anchor, which I always back up with a sling to another bolt and/or clip into my quad-anchor. Does that seem reasonable?

The purpose of your second sling to another bolt is to back up the bolt, not your PAS.

Eric Chabot wrote:

The purpose of your second sling to another bolt is to back up the bolt, not your PAS.

Why would you clip your PAS to one bolt of a multi-bolt anchor? Either clip your rope to both bolts (multiple techniques for doing so and, if you're swinging leads, usually the preferred way) or set up your belay with slings, cordelette, quad, or whatever method you prefer with a master point and clip your PAS with a locker to the master point. In other words, be safe, but minimize the clutter. It's not a huge issue, but a PAS to one bolt plus a sling to another is inelegant.

Pete Nelson wrote:

Why would you clip your PAS to one bolt of a multi-bolt anchor? Either clip your rope to both bolts (multiple techniques for doing so and, if you're swinging leads, usually the preferred way) or set up your belay with slings, cordelette, quad, or whatever method you prefer with a master point and clip your PAS with a locker to the master point. In other words, be safe, but minimize the clutter. It's not a huge issue, but a PAS to one bolt plus a sling to another is inelegant.

Cleaning a single pitch route.

Eric Chabot wrote:

Cleaning a single pitch route.

The same applies to single pitch routes. Just clip yourself directly into the master point of the anchor using a PAS, sling, quick draw, clove, etc to have a more simple system. No need to have a direct connection to both bolts

Safety is overrated