Continue with onX Maps
Sign in with Facebook
Moonboarding vs Hangboarding
|
If someone has a couple 60-80 minute sessions a week to climb in a home garage gym, and they have access to a normal moonboard in there as well as a hangboard/fingerboard (are those the same?) is there any reason to choose the hangboard instead of Moonboard? The Moonboard is certainly more fun and interesting, but maybe it's missing something important I don't know about that hangboards provide. Thanks EDIT since I can't post again: I'm NOT asking which to build or install in my house. I'm not asking which to use in my visits to a commercial gym. I don't go to a commercial gym and don't want to build anything else in my garage. I have a moonboard and 2 old ignored hangboards in my garage. Assuming a couple garage sessions a week, is there a reason to use a HB instead of just MB? |
|
Honestly it depends on what you are training for. If your goals involve very small edges, angles significantly different from the moon board, or some other extremely non-moon board style objective, then there might be ways to specifically train for those objectives on a hangboard better than a moon board. When it comes down to it though, the moon board is a great training tool that when used right can make you much stronger than you already are, and if you only have that limited amount of time to train, climbing on the wall is a much better alternative to not. Also, there are ways to combine hangboarding and moon boarding into a single session if that’s what you feel you need. |
Nathaniel F wrote: Thanks for the answer, but I don't really understand it to have a meaningful takeaway. If someone (me!) had 2 weekly sessions of ~60-80 minutes to climb in a garage with a Moonboard and a couple hangboards, should they ever bother with the (more boring) hangboards instead of the (more entertaining) MB? If so, in what mix and with what Hangboard workout? For reference, basically all the outdoor climbing I am interested in is vertical or barely overhanging with very small holds. I have weak finger strength and relatively low "power". Thanks |
Auden Alsop wrote: Thanks - what does your "power-endurance MB session" involve? In my (mistaken?) understanding of MB and training, I thought Moonboarding was basically maximum power limit bouldering (3-6 move dynamic climbs, often at or beyond the peak of someone's ability). I already have a moonboard and 2 (ignored) hangboards. I'm not asking what boards I should buy/build. I find spraywalls uninspiring, expensive and not a good option - I might just lack the imagination and memory to invent (and then recall) many good climbs on them. |
|
As someone who owns a Moonboard and a hangboard and has a job and a baby and not much time, here's how I think about it. The Moonboard is probably the best training stimulus for increasing my bouldering ability that I've ever found. In 2020, when I was pretty much limited to board training, my sport and boulder grades jumped significantly (granted, from a mediocre level to a level that is only slightly less mediocre. But the difference was notable.). As the gyms in the Bay reopened "post" pandemic, I've come to the realization that returning to the climbing gym is probably making me weaker than just staying home and climbing on the Moonboard. BUT and this is a huge but, a good Moonboard session is so intense for me that it takes at least a full day off and usually two before I'm recovered enough to do it again. So max 3 sessions a week but usually more like 2.So there's still a role for going to the gym (where I can get a decent session on ropes or boulders that's less intense than the board) or hangboarding. I set up a hangboard in my home office so I can get a max hang session in (which only takes 15 minutes or so) during the work day. I can do that on the morning of a gym session day, or the day after a Moonboard session (not the day of or the day before). I think this is helping. The one place I integrate hangboarding into moon sessions is warming up. I do some jumping jacks and climb juggy problems first, progressing to Moonboard v3s. But before pulling onto anything with small holds (usually v4 and up), I do a few short hangs on a 20 mm edge in quick succession (like 3-4 seconds on, 3-4 seconds off), rest a minute, then a few more on a 15 mm edge. And then rest a few minutes. I feel like this gets my tendons ready to pull powerfully on those small edges. And with respect to the application of Moonboard to vertical climbing, I would say that the impact is enormous. Tension-y, powerful moves absolutely exist on vertical climbs and I've seen big gains on that terrain from Moonboarding. Not to mention one of the biggest training lessons of the Moonboard is just how to try really f-ing hard, which is applicable to all styles and levels of climbing. TLDR: given your time constraints, just Moonboard. Make sure to warm up. If you have extra time during the week, hang. |
|
Moonboard one day and hang board the other? I’ve always like the moonboard because while you are training strength you are also fine tuning your technique as well, which is all the more important than strength IMHO. Hang boarding is good for building finger strength, though it can be difficult to maintain a regiment. For power I have found that weighted pull ups for the upper body and pistol/weighted squats for the lower help immensely. |
I found this to be true as well. Also the social aspect of the gym and poor setting in my gym make training less efficient than staying home and MB+hanging. |
|
I got a Moonboard built last fall (right after putting away a 14- project, and my wife putting away 2 13+ that season) and honest both of our climbing have been going backwards since then. Not that I blame the MB (there were a lot of other factors), but it's way too easy to over do it. I think once/week of limit bouldering on the MB or twice/week of more PE style (sticking to V3-V5 at a more rapid pace) is all I can handle, but maybe I'm just old. There are things that I do much better on after close to a year on the MB, but my feeling is more static/controlled finger (and for my wife shoulder) strength still has a big place in long term improvement. |
|
I think obviously “it depends”. In general, the Moon is more sport specific because it’s actually bouldering. A drawback is that the faster and more powerful movements are easier to overdo. It’s also more taxing overall, so I have a harder time balancing it with climbing. It’s also not very good for training really bad crimps and feet. The hangboard is slower and less sport specific but can be loaded heavier. It’s also easier to target specific grips with it. If you have a severe weakness in a particular grip you’ll find it much easier to work that on the hangboard. Honestly though I don’t see a good reason to waste gym time on hangboarding. Just get one at home and split your time — Moon at the gym, hangs at home. Or, even better, have both at home. There’s nothing better IMO than a good home wall. |
|
Assuming you're thinking about a home install, the biggest bang for the buck is definitely the hangboard. Super versatile, super cheap, takes up next to no space, has no maintenance, workouts across the training spectrum are easily quantifiable, the load is easily adjustable and the strength developed goes right to the bottom line. Moonboard is super expensive, requires installation and maintenance, meh holds, ludicrous grades on boulders, specific style of climbing, no clear path to assessing loads, etc. |
|
I have a 2016 Moonboard in my garage as well as a hangboard that I have found success on. If you are still climbing on the weekends I think two sessions during the week could be still valuable. In season I like to get one session in that is more power oriented like project bouldering and one power endurance session. On the power days I usually do some light hangboard work during the warm up and then after feeling like I can try hard and work one hard Boulder problem I will do a set of max hangs on the hangboard. Then go back to finishing the hard bouldering for the rest of the session . For a power endurance session, depending on what I am working on the rock, I may do 4x4 work, or doubles, or on the minute boulders. Good to stick with one type of PE workout for a few sessions before moving on to another type from what I have found. So to answer your initial question I think you could easily utilize both during your available time. EdIt: again related to your original question: I think adding in the hangboard can provide more structured finger strength training that is easier to track and also easier to make sure you get both hands worked. |
|
Blake if you are bored it might be worth reaching out to lattice. I know they have a dataset on max hangs vs climbing grade and I would imagine they may be collecting max moonboard grade or average moonboard grade vs climbing grade. If they have these three variables, I imagine they could determine which one is more predictive of climbing grade either it be max hang or moonboard grade and if overlap exists between the two. Personally, I don't think the overlap between moonboard and hangboarding is any stronger than general gym climbing and hangboarding, therefore I would incorporate hangboarding and moonboarding into training. |
blakeherrington wrote: If I were you I would not worry about hangboarding right now. If your goals are vert to slightly overhung crimpier outside climbing and gaining more power the moon board will help you more than the hangboard. If you are able to easily change the angle of the board to less than 45 degrees that will help you even more. Unless you have years of experience and/or a very solid technical and outside foundation, off the wall training (for things that can be trained for on the wall, I am not talking about ignoring all other off the wall exercises) will generally not be as effective as training on the wall. What the moon board excels at is teaching you tension and providing a way to learn to apply your newfound moon boarding power. Climb outside as much as possible, but when training in your garage start off with a goal to get more comfortable power climbing. One great way to do this is to try and climb maybe 10 benchmark V4 problems, then 20, then start trying harder grades. I cannot emphasize getting a solid foundation enough for this type of climbing. Some time down the road you might realize that your finger strength is your weakest link, and at this point I would suggest starting off with either minimum edge training or 7:3 repeaters, there is a ton of great info on those online, but again, it sounds like the moon board is the best option for you right now. |
Princess Puppy Lovr wrote: Board climbing potentially gets your fingers plenty strong, if it's the right style. I went through a period at the beginning of quarantine pretty much only bouldering on a small home woody with bad holds, which got my fingers the strongest they've ever been. That's the only time I could consistently one-arm hang the Beastmaker edge, despite doing almost no hangboarding and definitely no structured hangboarding. FWIW though I don't think the Moon Board specifically is really all that good for finger strength training. I've been training on it pretty much exclusively this year alongside structured hangboarding, and while my hang numbers have gone up and I've sent some 7C/7C+ benchmarks, I wouldn't say my actual rock climbing-specific finger strength has improved beyond where I was last year with the woody bouldering. My shoulder strength improved and I'm better at keeping my feet on, but my hand/grip strength feels a bit lower. I think people who've climbed good woodies and the commercial boards would probably agree with this assessment (I'm curious to hear otherwise…). Like, there are feelings of tension which are ubiquitous on rock, easily replicated on good spray walls (or even the Tension board), and rare on a Moon Board. There are definitely diminishing returns to it as a finger training device IMO. And using the Moon Board to train for vertical/slightly steep climbing is… sus. That style of climbing is like 95% standing on dime edges and full crimping tiny slimpers, neither of which you do on a Moon Board. |
Dan Schmidt wrote: Yeah but everyone in this thread is talking about their personal experience. The only point I was making is that upon intake of new clients I would imagine Lattice is collecting data. I imagine to get a placement of where climbers are at on intake they take max outdoor grade, average outdoor grade, max onsight, average onsight. In addition I bet they ask for current training metrics. They might have a model as to what is most effective, especially since they probably work with clients that have a similar situation to Blake. Maybe they have no data but if were a 5.14 climber like Blake, piecemeal advice from like 10 people is probably way less efficient than talking to someone that might actually have a dataset. |
Princess Puppy Lovr wrote: FWIW I did back-to-back programs with Lattice in 2018, and at least back then they didn't collect Moon Board stats. They ran me through a basic (and extremely messy, data-wise) assessment of maximum finger strength, anaerobic capacity, basic strength, and flexibility/mobility. They also notably didn't assess full crimp strength. Based on my and various friends' assessments at the time I didn't think too highly of their model — seemed very messy and subject to wild swings based on small changes in inputs. (The actual program was pretty good, and more importantly the workouts themselves in crimpd are fun and a good starting point. But the assessment, which gets all the hype, was very meh.) To be completely honest I doubt the usefulness of normative metrics. IMO their primary value is in selling/facilitating remote coaching services, whereas most people would benefit from working with quality local coaches (or just good climbing partners) who can assess them objectively rather than normatively. But that's a talk for another thread… |
blakeherrington wrote: Do you have the original yellow moon holds? Those things are simultaneously super fingery yet comfy and ergonomic. The happy answer is: keep the Moonboard as the first priority and then use the finger boards to make sure your fingers reach the correct level of done-ness at the end of a session. The sad/boring answer is that you said your fingerboards were sitting collecting dust and your climbing movement is almost surely a strong point (especially on moves more relevant than the MB will throw at you) so you should give the finger boards a run. |
|
Both. Hangboard for finger strength (max hangs), moonboard for power and core, and contact strength. Do them both on the same day 6 hours apart |
|
they train entirely different things. hangboard is for. . . hanging. if your finger strength is lacking, use the hangboard. if you can't stick any of the holds, start hangboarding. keep in mind, there are two different muscle groups for hangboarding. crimps are profundus, they will not train superficialis. hangboarding is also great for injury prevention. since moonboarding has a lot of shockloading things, it's generally safer to build a good base hangboarding. for example, if you have v10 fingers and are climbing v5, you can confidently go for anything on the moonboard at v5. moonboard is for movement. so everything other than finger strength, essentially. if you can't get to holds you know you can stick, moonboard. |
|
Well in the nugget climbing podcast Ben moon agrees that you don’t need to hangboard if you moonboard and you would probably get hurt. It’s around the around 50min mark. |
blakeherrington wrote: In my experience the overlap between the hangboarding CAN be significant. It really depends on how you use each though. I can train on a systems walls in a lot of different ways than I would use a hangboard and vice versa. If you are training for overall climbing, then the MB would obviously be beneficial, but if you are training for only your area I’m not really sure using the MB in lieu of a hang board is going to yield much bigger gains for your area. The reasoning would be that the moon board (assuming it’s close to the “standard” 40° angle) is going to gain you significantly more strength that you would ever need on vertical, thin terrain. I’m not saying it wouldn’t help but I’m not going to train on a 45° degree systems wall if I’m going to climb at Smith, just as I wouldn’t train only slab if going to the Red. With that said, you can never have too much power, but I think you’re going to achieve bigger, quicker gains, with less risk of injury, by creating a strict hangboard routine instead of a strict MB routine Like many things, everything in moderation. Some combination of both will be your best bet. If that was not already obvious. |
