Why don’t more people use a Gri-Gri to rappel?

Was climbing a couple weeks ago at Seneca, and I decided I would try out rappelling with a Gri-Gri instead of an ATC. I used a rope block to block the knot from going through the rappel bolts, and rapped down the strand that was blocked. Holy moly. Descending is so much easier, and you can hands free when you’d like, without having to lace up an auto block. I feel like it’s a much easier set-up and descend than an ATC rappel. So why don’t more people just rap with a Gri-Gri? Is it just preference?

Good question! You can also lower yourself out on a Gri Gri, but that gets annoying if the rope's full weight is dangling (have to feed rope through manually) and potentially dangerous if you don't know how far you're rappeling. But it's pretty handy if you're derigging fixed lines.

I will never rap on an ATC unless I have to, but there's a lot of anchors at which a biner block could complicate the rope pull.

1. Because KISS

2. Because most people are lowered from sport routes, which is what most people climb

3. Because most people don't bring a GriGri on trad routes (assuming thats what you did at Seneca)  

4. Because large(r) blocking knots (plus/minus carabiner) can get caught when the pulling of the rope(s) happens in the next step

5. Because these techniques are not cimbing100 level, they are not taught to the larger climbing audience 

6. I am sure more reasons than i can think of really quick like at this moment..

I think anyone considering rappelling with a Grigri should watch this. I really hadn't thought about it before seeing it in action:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJ9qZSeGXh0

Actually that does remind me of an accident that happened to me while lowering myself off a route with a Gri Gri. I was coming from a second pitch tier, and my rope was about 6' short of the ground, but my feet were just a few inches above a comfortable ledge. I had about a foot and a half of tail remaining, so I just tapped the brake handle to get me the extra few inches and the entire remaining length of rope shot through the Grigri. I sort of hopped backwards down a couple of steps and landed standing on the ground. Definitely learned that lesson cheaply and it could have been much worse as you can imagine. Sorry that that incident didn't come to mind straight away.

Because it's slower, and the the few times I've single rope rapped with a pull cord shit got stuck. Plus I think it's easier to control the rate of descent with an ATC. But I also only set up an auto block when I'm not sure where I'm going.

Double J wrote:

3. Because most people don't bring a GriGri on trad routes (assuming thats what you did at Seneca)  

bwuh? who the heck are you trad climbing with, I exclusively place widgets and rarely see a tuber belay for the sharp end

Double J wrote:

1. Because KISS.

^^^ yep. And ATC is more affordable, lighter, smaller. That is important to many people.

Pat Light wrote:

bwuh? who the heck are you trad climbing with, I exclusively place widgets and rarely see a tuber belay for the sharp end

I guess I am just old school.  But to be honest, I climbed the NW Ridge of Slesse 2 weeks ago, my partner had a grigri and an ATC guide. He lead belayed with the ATC and top belayed with the GriGri.  I just use the guide mode for top belaying with my ATC and I am happy with it for the moderate climbing I do. 

GriGris are perfect for descending for route development - cleaning and drilling, also for photographing climbers

 ATC where light weight and low bulk is important

I still like a Munter for both belay and rap - it’s the ultimate KISS preference. And I’ve never had any kink issues to speak of. I have seen a munter open a screw gate locking biner, which could be a big problem, but that’s impossible with the right set up.

Eric Metzgar wrote:

I think anyone considering rappelling with a Grigri should watch this. I really hadn't thought about it before seeing it in action:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJ9qZSeGXh0

Cool.  And that fellow is quite entertaining. :)

Yep. Hold on to the break strand.  Treat it as though your brake-hand grip is what matters.  

Kevin Worrall wrote:

GriGris are perfect for descending for route development - cleaning and drilling, also for photographing climbers

Get a Petzl Rig.  100X safer than a GriGri for route development, ect.  

Super useful for party of 3. Fix the rope and rappellers 1 and 2 rap on grigris. Rappeler 3 unfixes rope and raps as normal on atc. 

That Rig looks interesting, but seeing as I’ve been using a GriGri for 30 years or so with no safety issues - 100 times safer?!

I have worn thru the turned over aluminum lip on my latest one and retired it due to a razor sharp edge. The longer lever on the Rig makes sense, but how versatile is it for belaying?

I need to replace my GriGri, so maybe…

Or I could just quit climbing - it’s kind of strenuous

I most always prefer to use a grigri to rap when it's feasible, but there can certainly be a couple of drawbacks that I've experienced.  

1) There's more material to get caught on the rock when you pull your line if you use a blocking technique, so watch out for rope eating cracks or features

2) SInce you have to dedicate one hand to the handle of the grigri and your other hand on the brake strand, it can become difficult to rap down chimneys, gullies, or anything where you would need a free hand to keep you from banging into the wall

3) Wet/frozen ropes can be a nightmare to rap down when using a grigri so it helps to have a way to add friction to the system to make the descent smoother

Grigris really aren't any heavier when you compare it to having to bring 2 carabiners and an atc on multipitch climbs.  Plus belaying a second through them is much easier IMO.

Eric Metzgar wrote:

I think anyone considering rappelling with a Grigri should watch this. I really hadn't thought about it before seeing it in action:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJ9qZSeGXh0

Skip the first 6 minutes to get to the point: 

https://youtu.be/HJ9qZSeGXh0?t=360

Kevin Worrall wrote:

That Rig looks interesting, but seeing as I’ve been using a GriGri for 30 years or so with no safety issues - 100 times safer?!

I have worn thru the turned over aluminum lip on my latest one and retired it due to a razor sharp edge. The longer lever on the Rig makes sense, but how versatile is it for belaying?

I need to replace my GriGri, so maybe…

Or I could just quit climbing - it’s kind of strenuous

Edelrid Eddy might fit the niche between a Gri Gri and Rig. Probably cheaper and easier to find than the Rig, plus it's certified as a belay device. It has some of the features that make the Rig nice, and it is certainly beefier than a Gri Gri. It can be locked in place, so it won't unlock if you momentarily unweight it, like a Gri Gri would. Main drawback vs Gri Gri is weight.

Will Payne wrote:

I most always prefer to use a grigri to rap when it's feasible, but there can certainly be a couple of drawbacks that I've experienced.  

1) There's more material to get caught on the rock when you pull your line if you use a blocking technique, so watch out for rope eating cracks or features

2) SInce you have to dedicate one hand to the handle of the grigri and your other hand on the brake strand, it can become difficult to rap down chimneys, gullies, or anything where you would need a free hand to keep you from banging into the wall

3) Wet/frozen ropes can be a nightmare to rap down when using a grigri so it helps to have a way to add friction to the system to make the descent smoother

Grigris really aren't any heavier when you compare it to having to bring 2 carabiners and an atc on multipitch climbs.  Plus belaying a second through them is much easier IMO.

I agree with most of this. Though I'd really emphasize the fact that there is a lot more likelihood to get your blocking knot/biner caught on the pull. 

And you can't use a blocker when rapping on tat. At least not easily for the second person to rappel. Prerigging the second on an extended ATC works for at least allowing the first to rap on the grigri  

Grigri's are nice for simuling. The second can take in coils as they catch up to the leader.

But you can't do half/twin rope technique.

And finally, you only save one locker by using the grigri. So it's still a tad heavier than the ATC. 

Most of my climbing is in areas where the rappels suck and you are often worried about stuck ropes. So I don't like using blockers when possible. I rarely take the grigri. But I have done it where I'm sure it's the right device. 

Olek Chmura wrote:

Was climbing a couple weeks ago at Seneca, and I decided I would try out rappelling with a Gri-Gri instead of an ATC. I used a rope block to block the knot from going through the rappel bolts, and rapped down the strand that was blocked. Holy moly. Descending is so much easier, and you can hands free when you’d like, without having to lace up an auto block. I feel like it’s a much easier set-up and descend than an ATC rappel. So why don’t more people just rap with a Gri-Gri? Is it just preference?

If you couldn't tell from this thread there are a lot of old dudes stuck in their ways and they are teaching the next generation of gumbies the same things they know. 

There are some pretty bad arguments against the grigri:

1. Expense, yeah it costs more but you can routinely find them for 80$, for the convenience and how long they last it's a drop in the bucket. 

2. Weight, 2 lockers + an ATC guide is withing like 20 grams or something of a gri+locker. These same people complaining about weight don't have ultralight cams or even ultralight biners sometimes and often are carrying a fuckton of (unnecessary) gear so I'm not sure I buy this argument for most. 

3. Rapping off the end of the rope. I mean this can happen with an ATC, tie a knot.

There are some legitimate drawbacks:

1. Chimneys/roofs/weird raps as mentioned.

2. Icy ropes

3. Thick biner blocks that can get stuck. Although this can be mitigated by stacking raps, and having your partner have an ATC on top. This fixes the rope for you without having to tie any knots. Also simul rapping fixes this issue.

Gri is a much better belay device so it's what I and many others carry at this point over an ATC.

Will Payne wrote:

Grigris really aren't any heavier when you compare it to having to bring 2 carabiners and an atc on multipitch climbs.  Plus belaying a second through them is much easier

Here, decisions tend to cascade on each other.

Almost the only reason an ATC Guide needs two lockers instead of one is if belaying in guide mode.  For me, belaying in guide mode only happens when I am bringing up two followers at the same time. And, of course, we can’t do that with a grigri.

With one partner, and with the right rope, I just bring a plain ATC: light (60g) and cheap (< $20, on sale < $15).  Edit: No second locker needed. :)

… and of course an unguided ATC can be severely punishing to all but the purist of belay habits, rock fall withstanding.