Small Nuts for Free Climbing

I currently have the BD Stoppers 4-13, so looking at things smaller than the 4. My initial thought was the Peenuts are super popular, however the smallest one is just 0.5mm smaller than the BD 4. While they may be great to place in tricky spots, it doesn't really expand my range. I looked at just rounding out the BD set with the 1,2, and 3, but the 1 and 2 are rated to 2kN and thus not for lead climbing. I read through the discussion above about placing them for a "just in case" type situation. Then I looked at the DMM Micro Wallnuts. The 0 and 00 sizes are rated to 2kN, so assuming they aren't for lead climbing either (though the site doesn't call that out like BD's site does), but the 0.5 and 0.75 are rated for 4kN and 6kN respectively and both are smaller than the BD 4. Anyone used these and have an opinion?

I've got RPs and small BD steel nuts. I'm pretty sure the smallest one I carry is still rated for 5kn. Of course, that's cable breaking strength. The mico nut might shear out at a much smaller load, depending on placement

This is a bit dated but might help https://www.rockclimbingcompany.co.uk/Technical-Information/Micro-Nuts.html

Have you considered adding ball nuts? The blue and red sizes seem to go where a small nut wouldn’t and are rated to 5 or 6kn.  Depending on the rock type they may suit your needs.

I really like the DMM Brass Offsets. All but the smallest two sizes are rated for free climbing, but I REALLY wouldn't want to fall on the #2 (Red) or #3 (Black). They are tiny.

Not Hobo Greg wrote:

Get some brassies, they’re usually around 7kn in all but the smallest sizes (and maybe even those, I go down a few sizes below the bd 4).

This was my first thought, but they are 1. more expensive and 2. seems like they aren't durable in the sense of being on your rack for years.

I augment the peenuts and BD nuts with Micro Wallnuts . Easier to clean than brassies, but they do not seat as easily. In regard to whipping, I have taken multiple 15-20 foot whips on 2kn nuts and they were fine (disclaimer: in bullet granite on a stretchy 9.2 BD rope). Not sure what rock you are using these in, but I would probably shell out for brassies unless you are on good granite

DMM IMPs

Carolina wrote:

Have you considered adding ball nuts? The blue and red sizes seem to go where a small nut wouldn’t and are rated to 5 or 6kn.  Depending on the rock type they may suit your needs.

The blue one is 8 kn red even stronger 

Chris Johnson wrote:

This was my first thought, but they are 1. more expensive and 2. seems like they aren't durable in the sense of being on your rack for years.

1) True, they are more expensive, but for free climbing you shouldn't be buying a whole set.  Just get the largest 3 sizes of DMM offset brassies (definitely get the offsets, don't mess with the IMPs). Then, later, if you really want to, get the next size down.

2) You should not do the "just yank up" approach to cleaning brass nuts.  Tell your partner to only clean them using a nut tool and taps from below.  If you're frequently whipping on micro nuts and wearing them out, I'm impressed. 

Sam Skovgaard wrote:

1) True, they are more expensive, but for free climbing you shouldn't be buying a whole set.  Just get the largest 3 sizes of DMM offset brassies (definitely get the offsets, don't mess with the IMPs). Then, later, if you really want to, get the next size down.

2) You should not do the "just yank up" approach to cleaning brass nuts.  Tell your partner to only clean them using a nut tool and taps from below.  If you're frequently whipping on micro nuts and wearing them out, I'm impressed. 

Hahaha you're definitely right, I'm not whipping. I had read though for brassies that even placing them, they tend to get chewed up and wear out. Untrue?

I made a spreadsheet of micronuts

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/11KEyRbEjRHFIHQhkfGv4xNezylcULMpeI7AJ8d1G-UQ/edit?usp=sharing

It's a copy of some of the info at the other link shown with a bit extra and then colour coded

Tim, that spreadsheet is awesome!  Nice work.

I started with the steel nuts, and retired them years ago for RPs.  The steel is just too damn hard, and likes to fall out of tricky placements.  And how often do you get micro gear in textbook placements?  I also haven't seen an issue with the brassies not holding up well enough.

GO

Chris Johnson wrote:

Then I looked at the DMM Micro Wallnuts. The 0 and 00 sizes are rated to 2kN, so assuming they aren't for lead climbing either (though the site doesn't call that out like BD's site does), but the 0.5 and 0.75 are rated for 4kN and 6kN respectively and both are smaller than the BD 4. Anyone used these and have an opinion?

I use the 0.5 and 0.75 Micro Wallnuts often and really like them, especially the 0.75. They make a really nice complement to the offset brassies, and often fit well in placements where it's hard to get a lot of good contact on the offsets. Would definitely recommend!

The 0 and 00, on the other hand, I can't imagine using. I've never used them, so take my opinion for what it's worth (not a lot), but they're so weak for the size, I can't imagine placing them over a brassie of the same size.

Chris Stocking wrote:

I use the 0.5 and 0.75 Micro Wallnuts often and really like them, especially the 0.75. They make a really nice complement to the offset brassies, and often fit well in placements where it's hard to get a lot of good contact on the offsets. Would definitely recommend!

The 0 and 00, on the other hand, I can't imagine using. I've never used them, so take my opinion for what it's worth (not a lot), but they're so weak for the size, I can't imagine placing them over a brassie of the same size.

I think this is the direction I'm leaning. Get the two solid Micro Wallnuts and if I still want smaller, get some brassies. Thanks for the info!

wivanoff wrote:

I've got RPs and small BD steel nuts. I'm pretty sure the smallest one I carry is still rated for 5kn. Of course, that's cable breaking strength. The mico nut might shear out at a much smaller load, depending on placement

This is a bit dated but might help https://www.rockclimbingcompany.co.uk/Technical-Information/Micro-Nuts.html

That was an interesting article, the author notes:

There is no perfect micro wire although an IMP/RP 2 comes pretty close; but a micro wire rack that includes IMP/RPs 2, 3 and 4, Brass Offsets 2, 3 and 4 plus Micro Wallnuts 0.5 and 0.75 is a really good starting point.

Stever wrote:

That was an interesting article, the author notes:

There is no perfect micro wire although an IMP/RP 2 comes pretty close; but a micro wire rack that includes IMP/RPs 2, 3 and 4, Brass Offsets 2, 3 and 4 plus Micro Wallnuts 0.5 and 0.75 is a really good starting point.

I agree with this selection plus a couple larger offsets. Having variety is very useful and your local stone will dictate what is best. Also treat these a little different than regular gear and place more frequently/back it up/nest. They are strong but concentrate a lot more force in a smaller area of rock. Plus being so small it can be harder to inspect fit since.

Chris Johnson wrote:

I think this is the direction I'm leaning. Get the two solid Micro Wallnuts and if I still want smaller, get some brassies. Thanks for the info!

I wouldn't do that. Brassies are way more durable and fit much better than Micro Wallnuts. Best brassies to get are the Metolius Astro Nuts (free climbing set). They are slight asymmetrical, so great as your first set. Compliment later with the 3 biggest DMM Brass Offsets. 

IMPs and brass offsets are a good double set but if only getting a single set get the Astro Nuts.

rocknice2 wrote:

I wouldn't do that. Brassies are way more durable and fit much better than Micro Wallnuts. Best brassies to get are the Metolius Astro Nuts (free climbing set). They are slight asymmetrical, so great as your first set. Compliment later with the 3 biggest DMM Brass Offsets. 

IMPs and brass offsets are a good double set but if only getting a single set get the Astro Nuts.

You're the only other person I've heard suggest the Astro nuts. My first set of nuts was the Metolius asymmetric curve nuts, kind of a blend of offset and regular nuts, and I love them (although they can be a little harder to clean, generally gotta use a nut tool) so I got Astros as my micro brassies. They are more narrow than some other micro nuts but the weird shape works great in little weird cracks. I agree that mixing them with a flatter/wider set would be great.

Add another fan of Astros.  Astros and DMM.  

Mark Pilate wrote:

Add another fan of Astros.  Astros and DMM.  

You mean DMM offset or micro walnut?