Tarp Bivy ledge?
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Curious what people’s experience is with a tarp on a bivy ledge as a JIC shelter if unexpected weather rolls in. I’m hesitant to drop cash on a bivy bag when I already use tarps for backpacking. |
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A PITA because when weather rolls in that typically means wind. Trying to stay dry while it is pissing sideways and keeping the tarp secure is not going to happen. Also on ledge water can flow in weird ways so about the time you think you have things set, a trickle of water rolls down your butt. Finally, if you are going to try to sleep keeping the trap in one place is not going to happen. Now if you want to just hunker down while storm passes overhead a cagoule would be a better option as some are pretty long. |
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How about a pyramid shelter? (No floor) |
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Do you envision using your just-in-case shelter to sleep in, or is it just a place to keep you dry while you wait out some storm? If for the later, I'm a big fan of a bothy bag. I've never used one on a ledge, but used mine plenty on flat ground. If the ledge is big enough I see no reason why you can't use it. And there's usually a vent on the side of the bothy so you should be able to connect yourself to the anchor creatively. |
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I’m basically envisioning that when we notice the weather changing we either book it to the next ledge or retreat to a lower point to wait out the storm. So a JIC shelter that isn’t too expensive or specialized and can preferably be slept in. I’ll look into the Bothy bag. |
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Ben M wrote: Um, "...on a bivy ledge..."??? |
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Ben M wrote: If you want to lie down flat and sleep, then bothy bag isn't going to be the right choice. It's more of a temporary sitting shelter to hunker down, as soon as the storm passes you move on. For sleeping a bivy bag would be better. Andy Kirkpatrick had a good write up on bothy bag vs. bivy bag many years ago, I don't think much has changed. https://www.andy-kirkpatrick.com/articles/view/bothy_or_bivy_bag |
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M Jarmland wrote: I have the Terra Nova 2P too. With this bothy bag, the stuff sack is also the vent (with a mesh as the bottom of the stuff sack). I imagine it's quite easy to take a hot knife and slice a little opening in the vent/stuff sack that would allow you to run a piece of rope/sling through and tie that to the anchor, then once you're inside the bothy, you can clip in to this rope/sling. Since the vent is on the side, seems that it would be more weather proof then modding the top. What am I missing? |
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Make a teepee with the tarp - middle is the top. Inside and at the top is, for example, a large hex or slung piece of gear. On the outside, double or triple girth hitch that piece of gear, cinching the tarp, and clip to a solid anchor. You can now clip in and hang from the slung piece inside the tarp and droop your rope down and back to the anchor as backup. No ledge needed. This helps avoid most of the problems Allen mentions. Enjoy - lol. |
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Marc801 C wrote: On any side by side sleepable ledge you can likely set up a tarp, pyramid shelter or a small tent like the BD firstlight. I don’t see how this is an unreasonable line of thought. Curious what people’s systems are since the consensus about bivy bags is that they are awful. |
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Ben M wrote: You re right, bivy bags are awful, in a normal situation. Personally for alpine I always carry the Ortovox ultralight bivy, can fit 2 persons, 150 grs. |
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Ben M wrote: Pyramid shelters typically have a larger footprint than a tent, and usually tarps, too. A first light will almost certainly fit places a mid won't. Tarps have been used in some pretty hairball places (north face of north twin comes to mind), but I feel that for those sorts of climbs today they have largely been supplanted by lightweight bivy sacks. A tarp used to be the clear winner in weight compared to two bivy sacks, but with many light options available today, it's hard to argue in favor of the tarp. Instead you'd use a tent (more weatherproof) or two bivy sacks (more versatile). What's the application for this? Sure a bivy sack isn't amazing, but unless you're questing hard, you'll be waiting for a weather window, in which case the bivy sack is insurance as opposed to the ideal shelter option. |
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The application of this is for a multi day rock route with one or two planned bivies. Waiting for a weather window but you never really know what’s going to pop up. |
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Ben M wrote: Wall or alpine? In either case, bivy sack still probably wins out. |
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Derek DeBruin wrote: Both? Bugaboos in July. Available ledges look reasonably generous. |
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On lower angle cliffs, most of the water will be coming from sheeting down the rock. The rain from the sky will feel like little consequence in comparison. |
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Ben M wrote: Really depends on how weather proof you actually want to be then, because we are talking rain and not snow. Tent will win that analysis, at the cost of weight. But whether tent or mid, you'll need some way to tension the corners since stakes don't work so well driving into a solid rock ledge. A tent is typically easier to construct as a result. I think it comes down to likelihood of precip for your weather window, whether you can afford to get wet (ex. lots of down to keep dry?), how comfortable you want to be, and whether that means potential more sleeping comfort vs the discomfort of carrying a heavier load. That assumes all options are equally available to you. In short, if you want to use a tarp, go for it. It wouldn't be the first time it's been done. But you might find other options better for weight, versatility, weatherproofing, etc. |
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You better have some sharp tent pegs to nail into the solid granite when you're building that nicely-pitched, origami tarp haha. Bivvy sacks are the superior way to keep You will not be dry in either scenario, but will will be significantly less soggy in a little tent. |
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A cagoule may be the ticket |