grasshopper board thoughts

My experience with the grasshopper board so far:

Why:

I moved to an area without close access to a climbing gym. My work schedule is very busy, so I wanted a standard system wall rather than a spray wall I would have to set myself. I have a relatively small space which wouldn’t allow for a standard size moon or tension board; as a taller climber, I was afraid that I could reach thru the mini versions of the moon/tension boards with my feet still on the kickplate. The grasshopper board is designed without a kickboard, so I could still have a standard 8x12 climbing surface but fit it in a smaller place.

Specs:

8x12 board (“master size”) with Power hold setup only. Sits at about 46 degrees. Base of board goes directly to the ground, no kickplate or raised platform.

Pros:

• All the holds are usable, even at a steep angle
• Good variety of hold sizes/types
• More user friendly for a range of climbing abilities than other boards
• Mirrored board
• Thoughtful hold placement
• Great customer service

Cons:

• Small established problem pool, especially if your board is fixed angle without all 3 holdsets. Hopefully this will improve with time, as this is a newer system wall.
• Having no kickboard leads to huge variability in the starts of problems. Many videos of commercial boards show that they have a kickboard; despite not having any feet on the kickboard, that raises and vastly changes the start positions. Even grasshopper’s frame has a few inches of clearance at the base. Because of this, the starts essentially become non-standard and highly variable and dependent on your board’s frame build. This further exacerbates the first issue of a small established problem pool, as some starts will be significantly harder or impossible if your board isn’t raised. I understand that by not having a kickboard they limit the ability of tall climbers to reach thru sequences as easily, but unless the distance the board is from the ground is standardized, your climbing experience on this board will be variable (for starts at least).
• Finish holds are not as positive as other boards. Matching the finish often becomes the crux, or you are frequently doing very similar moves the most positive finish hold. I imagine this is somewhat improved if you have the flow or engage holdsets (or your board isn’t as steep), although they only add 2 finish holdtypes.

Conclusion:

     When compared to other boards, grasshopper’s biggest drawback is the lack of established problems and small user base. The non-standardized distance the board sits from the ground is also a problem, and it will be interesting to see how the company approaches this in the future.

     From my experience, the moon board is still the gold standard in systems walls that have best translation to outdoor climbing. The grasshopper has much greater diversity of holdtypes and comfier/less tweaky holds compared to moon, but is perhaps lacking some of the gritty, very poor holds that make the moon board translate so well to much of outdoor climbing. The grasshopper does have the advantage of a lower barrier to entry compared to the moon board, though.

     The grasshopper holdset sits in between the tension and moon holds, I think. It has several slopers and various sized pinches but is not as sloper heavy as the tension board.  Grasshopper holdset also has some larger volume-esque features that lend themselves well to footwork not seen as often on other system boards. At a steep angle, I find many holds on the tension become unusable for mere mortals and was pleasantly surprised at the usability of all the grasshopper holds.

     Overall, for my current setup I would get this board again. If I had the space for a tension or moon board, the decision would be more difficult. Regardless, I think this is a solid system wall setup with a great variety of holds that are thoughtfully set. Hopefully the user base continues to expand and increase the problem pool. I think at some point grasshopper will have to address the height the board sits off the ground if they want a truly standardized board.

What was the overall ballpark cost for the setup? I can't seem to find prices on their site.

https://grasshopperclimbing.com/products/master-hold-set

Hey Dave -- thanks for the writeup. I'm debating what type of board to install my my garage as well.

What is the height of your space, such that you needed to put the grasshopper at 46 degrees? Did you install the Ninja 8x10 or Master 8x12?

dave rosen wrote:

https://grasshopperclimbing.com/products/master-hold-set

So, looking at this it looks like the total cost is about 6k for the cheapest board and then another 2k or so for a single hold set, for a total out of pocket cost of about 8k for the most basic set up? I haven’t priced the other available boards, but one can build an amazing home Woody for that cost. 

Their Ninja board costs 9k with holds and LEDS. Thats a pretty screaming deal if you are looking for a freestanding adjustable angle board. By comparison the freestanding moonboard kit costs over 10k and isn't height adjustable without disassembly.

Frank Stein wrote:

So, looking at this it looks like the total cost is about 6k for the cheapest board and then another 2k or so for a single hold set, for a total out of pocket cost of about 8k for the most basic set up? I haven’t priced the other available boards, but one can build an amazing home Woody for that cost. 

The low end for the Master board is around $11,000 going up to more than $35k before holds depending on your mounting system.

Woah.

By comparison, I would not call my home wall amazing by any means, but it gets the job done for less than $500.00 and not even a full day’s labor. Or, you can just buy 7 to 8 years of anual membership at your local gym. 

IMO, the biggest advantage of a systems board over your own woody is the user base, and the least important part of a systems board for home use is the led system. I just don't see the appeal of a new board w/o a user base and a $2k+ led system. I'd even argue that symmetry isn't worth the trade off of increased hold/route diversity, if it's something you use often (where "practicing" is much more important than "training").

The pros/cons are different in a commercial setting.

So many boards these days.  For sure, each has strengths.  Moonboard problem library runs deep.  Kilter board climbs well at a variety of angels.  Tension easy on the skin.  New Formik/Woods board has wood and plastic holds.  Problem, for me at least, is that all these boards break the bank.  

For my price point, best board is a fixed angle (45 - 50) with lots of used holds plus some home made grips.  Look for a Maker Space or similar DIY woodworking spot in your town.  Buy some 4 quarter to 8 quarter off cuts of hard woods.  Speciality, contractor-driven lumber stores carry these.  Do not go to big box stores like Home Depot.  In a few afternoons, you can make well over 100 edges, pinches and mini-jugs.  No Maker Space in your area?  Borrow the tools or invest in a few (jig saw, sander).  Find used bigger holds like jugs, cobbles, slopers, etc. on eBay or the Climbing Hold Exchange on FB.  Don't be afraid to ask local gyms if they got old holds for sale. Can't find what you want?  Buy a few choice new sets of holds.   As for problems, invite the homies over.  Or just send them pics of the wall and request boulders.  Way more fun to climb your friend's boulder than some random on the Moonboard app. 

Total cost for me was $2500. Holds were the only thing I bought from grasshopper. My space was about 100 inches tall

Thoughts on the ninja size (8x10)? How does climbing on the 8x12 at 46 degrees compare to the moonboard at 40?  Seems like with the bigger holds it could be more or less comparable?

Phil Sakievich wrote:

Thoughts on the ninja size (8x10)? How does climbing on the 8x12 at 46 degrees compare to the moonboard at 40?  Seems like with the bigger holds it could be more or less comparable?

If you're willing to make problems or try problems that don't have as man accents its pretty comparable to the Moonboard. (not a big pool to scroll through but I've enjoyed making my own routes)  While the majority of the holds on the Moonboard are extremely positive, on the grasshopper a good amount of the holds are quite small with a little lip or are really sloopey. So at 40+ degrees you end up using a lot of the same holds if you're not a V10+ Moonboarder.  If you're not climbing in the V10 range, I would suggest getting it adjustable as it does provide a lot of options to make solid moderate (v5-7ish) problems at a less steep angle 15-25ish. 

I've climbed a few days on a grasshopper and had a couple big takeaways:

1. Grasshopper costs 3x as much as moonboard for the full set of holds (all 3 colors) and lights. ($4750 + tax and shipping)
2. Grasshopper climbing felt to me more like doing various "training sequence" or something like "dynamic hangboarding" - much less interesting and flowy than Moonboarding, which to me at least, feels like doing powerful cruxes of steep rock climbs.

I've had the Ninja set on my home built 30 degree wall for a couple months and here are my thoughts so far: 

- Great customer service. Company is super responsive and quick to ship. The holds and hardware were really well organized in the boxes which saved me a lot of time while setting. 

- Setting and light installation instructions are well done and the process is straightforward (although plan for at least a full day if you are working alone). 

- Very fun to climb on. Movement on the good problems is on par with comparably graded outdoor classics here in New England. Some problems have gym style movement or feel like "dynamic hangboarding" as the poster above noted. I don't think is is a bad thing though, just different. There are also a lot of problems that have realistic rock climbing movement, footwork, and body tension. You've got to be creative in weighting your feet on a lot of problems. For me, a few months on the Grasshopper have translated to notable improvement in rock climbing, although I've pretty much exclusively climbed outside so maybe I would get the same bump from regular gym climbing. 

- The Grasshopper company problems are great but the user generated problems vary in quality a lot. The quality star ratings (1 star to 3 stars) are basically useless as most problems get full stars. A lot of the user generated problems are great as well and you can filter by the setter so once you figure out which users set problems you enjoy it's easy to filter. 

- The layout and hold variety is great. Lots of crimps, pinches, slopers, and jugs with a few cobble type holds thrown in. You can climb really hard or have very easy problems (unlike other boards which don't have many easy problems). This makes it good for families or groups with varied abilities. Pretty kid friendly. 

- The lights are not necessary but are worth the extra cost in my opinion. I climbed about 15 sessions before installing the lights and had no issues on most problems except the boulders that wander around the board. That having been said the lights are pretty necessary to use the "route" function and helpful for doing things like 4x4s or just climbing a lot of problems in short intervals. The only issues I've had with the lights are that footholds can be hard to see when down climbing routes and sometimes the app disconnects from the light system if you stay on one problem for too long (but it's easy to reconnect). 

-The "route" function which consists of moving frames of 20 to around 70 moves is cool. The pacing is hard to nail down at first because the default pace is wicked fast. Once you do a "route" a few times it's easier to get the pace right. There are not many routes in the data base but it's easy to link established boulders as de facto routes if you have someone to change lights. There are also enough good holds that you can just jump on the wall and climb around for a few minutes making your own "route" up. 

- There are a lot of established problems, especially in the v0 to v5 range (over 650 on the Ninja at 30 degrees plus a ton more "projects" that no one has ticked / graded yet). Far fewer in the v7 and up range but the app makes it easy to mess around with setting new boulders if that's your thibg. If you have the full 8x12 wall at an adjustable angle there are probably multiple thousand problems. 

-There are problems of all styles but you can't filter by style (say crimps versus slopers or dynamic versus tensiony) so it can take a bit of scrolling through the database to find a problem if youre looking for a particular style. You can filter by grade, setter, number of repeats, ect so that can be helpful.  

-If you can't swing an adjustable angle wall, 30 degrees is good for beginner / intermediate climbers. Plenty of easy problems to warm up and work endurance and you can still use the small holds on limit boulders. For me I think the small holds would be unusable at 40 to 50 degrees plus but if you're climbing v6 / 5.12+ and up you'd probably be fine with a fixed angle wall that steep. 

-Build your wall with a decent sized kickboard (at least 10 in). I dont have much of a kickboard and many sit starts are very cramped.

-The adjustable walls (particularly the freestanding) look so cool but are very expensive when compared to the cost of a home built wall. I think the Grasshopper prices are in the same range as similar offerings from Tension and Kilter for just the lights and holds. Moonboard or a spray wall would be cheaper, I think. I heard a climbing podcast (Nugget climbing) that offers a huge discount code on Grasshopper so be sure to check that out if you are buying holds or a wall. 

-On the subject of cost, padding is a major factor. I priced out commercially available climbing flooring and it's crazy expensive. I went with a rug under the sit starts and my two medium crash pads. I have to move the pads around a bit when changing problems and there are inevitably gaps but it's a non issue in my view. 

- Overall it's a major investment but worth the cost over a spray wall or Moonboard if (1) you want many hundreds of really good problems already set for you (2) you want longer "route" circuits set for you and (3) you like comfortable holds that are unlikely to injure your tendons. There are probably a few other advantages but that's what I've got. 

Is there any board that fits in a place with 8 foot ceilings?

10 foot board at 40 degrees would just barely fit but probably be pretty cramped for sit starts. Mini moonboard, Kilter homewall, Grasshopper, cropped Tension board would all fit the bill.

I have a Kilter homewall at exactly 8' tall (purchased from someone who built it in a bedroom with 8' ceilings). The resulting angle is 37.5 degrees, which is a bit of a non-standard angle, but the minimum angle you can get while staying under 8'.

The answer to “how tall of a board can I have under x ft ceiling at y angle?” can be found in that geometry/trig class you thought you’d never use in high school.

On the actual topic:

I have an adjustable grasshopper ninja with the flow, engage, and power sets and like it well enough. The movement is generally more fiddly than the kilter or moon (more route types of moves), the holds aren’t the best for steep climbing, and the small user base has resulted in the most disgusting grade compression I have ever seen. Customer service is fantastic. Build quality is amazing. Lack of kicker is mean.

I added my own wood holds in the spaces where the new Pro Series goes and found it is good for making the board tailored to my weaknesses and endurance focus. 2 boards in 1. Skin friendly enduro spray and fun LED guided bouldering. Have learned a lot about crimping for sure.

John Clark wrote:

The answer to “how tall of a board can I have under x ft ceiling at y angle?” can be found in that geometry/trig class you thought you’d never use in high school.

On the actual topic:

I have an adjustable grasshopper ninja with the flow, engage, and power sets and like it well enough. The movement is generally more fiddly than the kilter or moon (more route types of moves), the holds aren’t the best for steep climbing, and the small user base has resulted in the most disgusting grade compression I have ever seen. Customer service is fantastic. Build quality is amazing. Lack of kicker is mean.

I added my own wood holds in the spaces where the new Pro Series goes and found it is good for making the board tailored to my weaknesses and endurance focus. 2 boards in 1. Skin friendly enduro spray and fun LED guided bouldering. Have learned a lot about crimping for sure.

Your hybrid board looks really cool from the photos you posted in another thread. Do you like the way you laid out the wooden holds within the grasshopper set? Anything you would change? 

John Goodlander wrote:

Your hybrid board looks really cool from the photos you posted in another thread. Do you like the way you laid out the wooden holds within the grasshopper set? Anything you would change? 

So far no complaints about the wood. They are hard at 30°+ and good for endurance under 20°. I am not a setter or talented at shaping though, so I’m sure improvements could be made. I’ll also probably shake up the set when my wife catches up to where she was pre pregnancy.