Quiver killer helmet

Alright. I’m sure some of you have the answer to this.

I’m kinda tired of having a different helmet for everything primarily skiing, biking (road/gravel), and climbing. I’m getting close to needing a new helmet in a couple of these categories and only want to buy one helmet to rule them all.

I have a really warm low profile hat so I’m not too worried about needing insulation on the cold days skiing.

Any suggestions?

A bike helmet provides better lead-fall protection than any climbing helmet on the market. If it fits your head well, the BD Vapor provides the best head coverage of any helmet made for climbing. All others expose varying degrees of the front, sides, and rear of the head to unnecessary injuries. The least expensive provide the least protection. I think manufacturers of climbing helmets have been worse than negligent when promoting and selling those. 

George Bracksieck wrote:

A bike helmet provides better lead-fall protection than any climbing helmet on the market. If it fits your head well, the BD Vapor provides the best head coverage of any helmet made for climbing. All others expose varying degrees of the front, sides, and rear of the head to unnecessary injuries. The least expensive provide the least protection. I think manufacturers of climbing helmets have been worse than negligent when promoting and selling those. 

I’m already on the full dome coverage train for a climbing helmet. Curious what helmet is out there that has full coverage and performs reasonably well at all three activities. 

Do some googling on what the certification requirements are for climbing/mountaineering helmets, bike helmets, and ski helmets. For example, most cycling helmets have ventilation openings at the top of the head; that would never pass a mountaineering/climbing certification because it needs to pass a test for rockfall (really a metal cone I think) to the top of the head.

I’m not aware of any helmets that are “rated” for all three. But I imagine it wouldn’t be ideal for any one of the three activities. It would be one big compromise of a helmet. 

For what it’s worth, I climb rock/ice and ski in the same helmet; the Mammut Wall Rider MIPS.

I think you'd be happier with dedicated helmets unless you're combining the activities in a single day somehow (eg ski mountaineering). 

Climbing helmets are lighter and primarily tested for top protection. Nice to have a light helmet when climbing. Some have more side and rear coverage than others but they are not systematically tested on this by a certifying body so you're left with "well, certainly can't hurt" rather than proven performance. 

Ski helmets require more side/rear impact protection and coverage than climbing helmets. Less penetration protection, the climbing test is the most severe for that.

Ski and bike helmets are more similar in terms of coverage and impact but ski helmets have more penetration protection. It's why bike helmets can have all those big vents and still pass the certification test. 

I don't know that you'll actually find a helmet rated for all 3 because not many people are linking those 3 activities in one "session" and the requirements (not just protection but comfort) are so different. 

If you really want to do this I'd get a climbing+ski rated helmet like the Sweet Protection Ascender. 

https://www.sweetprotection.com/en-us/blog/tech/tech-certifications.html

When I lived in a tiny van for a few years and had a real premium on space, the bike helmet was the one awkward piece of gear I could never get rid of. Climbing helmet can double for just about any other sport but cycling in one is miserable thanks to the lack of ventilation. 

Ben M wrote:

Any suggestions?

I rode Colorado Trail Race in my orange Sirroco because it was lighter than my bike helmet. My head never overheated, and I didn't even feel the need to take it off for the protracted hike-a-bike sections.

On a different bikepacking trip, I endo'd and cracked the Sirroco, which I retired shortly thereafter. No TBI - It did its job.

For pure downhill MTB, though, I would stick with a proper bike helmet, preferably full-face. But I don't really get into that kind of aid-riding, not enough suffering for my taste.

The buckle on the Sirroco is quite flimsy, so I got into the habit of leaving it snapped closed whenever I stored the helmet.

A much cheaper and only slightly heavier version of the Sirroco is the Singing Rock Penta. I've also had good experiences biking in it.

Two Helmet quiver gets you a better helmet for each activity: 

1- dedicated bike helmet, safer and better vented for biking.  

2- Petzl Sirocco for skiing/climbing if you don't care about a ski cert, or newest Petzl Meteor if you want something that Petzl claims has obtained equivalence to a ski cert (but not independently ski certified by a 3rd party to my knowledge).

Try out your different helmets in different sports.

Specifically, I've tried the helmet that I like for climbing when I was skiing (cause I forgot my helmet and home but had my ice climbing crap in the truck )... I was much colder and less comfortable.  It made me feel just fine about owning a helmet just for skiing.  Same with biking versus the climbing... neither my ski helmet nor my climbing helmet is great for that.  You may find it's a okay for you, though.

I don't mind owning a couple of different helmets...  where I am now neither money nor space is a limiting factor and they'll all wear out before I'm done with any of these sports.  

I can replace one helmet that's "okay" for any activity every 18 mos or whatever (made up time span), or I could replace 3 helmets every 4 years but have nicer, sport-specific equipment.  Pretty much the same amount of cash out, but a nicer experience.

John Reeve wrote:

I can replace one helmet that's "okay" for any activity every 18 mos or whatever (made up time span), or I could replace 3 helmets every 4 years but have nicer, sport-specific equipment.  Pretty much the same amount of cash out, but a nicer experience.

My helmets have been “in sync” for when they need replacement so I’m trying to reduce what I own and just spend money once. (2/3 currently need replacement)

In response about the Petzl helmets they do meet the EN standard for ski touring but not in bounds skiing due to some skier on skier collision protections like not having a ski pole able to fit. Good to hear the Meteor is nice to bike in. I’m mainly commuting and some light gravel/road biking and I agree on the aid cycling. Not for me.  I’m leaning towards the meteor.

I’m willing to accept that specific helmets are better for different things but I’m willing to compromise to own less of them. Like with skiing I feel like all the jackets I wear have hoods I never use because they don’t fit over my big ski helmet.

The protection zone in profile of my current helmets is all the same as well when I compared them side by side.

Edit in response to The movement 3tech (response limit):

That looks perfect but it runs too small for my dome.

Movement 3tech Alpi 

Ben M wrote:

In response about the Petzl helmets they do meet the EN standard for ski touring but not in bounds skiing due to some skier on skier collision protections like not having a ski pole able to fit. Good to hear the Meteor is nice to bike in. I’m mainly commuting and some light gravel/road biking and I agree on the aid cycling. Not for me.  I’m leaning towards the meteor.

It's interesting how Petzl advertises this:

Currently there is no reference standard outlining the health and safety requirements for a ski touring helmet, unlike downhill skiing, which follows the guidelines of the EN 1077 class B standard.

Therefore, in order to obtain CE certification for a helmet used for ski touring, Petzl approached a certified body to create a standard that takes into consideration the practice, the environment and the dangers of ski touring. This reference standard is based primarily on:

• The requirements of the mountaineering helmet standard (EN 12492), to provide rockfall protection while ensuring maximum ventilation for comfortable wear during ascents

• Requirements for enhanced protection against lateral, front and rear impacts (as described in Petzl’s test protocol for the TOP AND SIDE PROTECTION label).

This new reference standard is the PCSR-001 (Protocol for ski touring helmets). It is public, and available to other manufacturers for certification of their helmets.

As best as I can tell it's a 50cm drop on a flat anvil. That's a fraction of what bike and ski helmets undergo. 

I like Petzl as a company, and credit them for doing any testing at all but I'm not sure it's wise to use these over the established standards that presumably have decades of research to back them up. 

Did Petzl update their helmets to meet this new standard or just take their current helmet, see what it could withstand and call that the new standard?

The protection zone in profile of my current helmets is all the same as well when I compared them side by side.

That's oversimplifying things a bit. They can all have the same "coverage" but some of them have actually been tested to take a whack on the sides and back. 

jdejace wrote:

Did Petzl update their helmets to meet this new standard or just take their current helmet, see what it could withstand and call that the new standard?

5kg mass dropped from 50 cm and transferring less than 10 kN to the headform (the Petzl test for Top and Side Protection) = nearly the exact same test as the UIAA and EN perform to the upper sides of the helmet, except UIAA actually requires less than 8 kN of force transferred to the headform. See reference below from Climbing Mag.

So, conversationally, we might say that Petzl tests the side/front/back of the helmet to the same standard as the EN tests the upper sides of the helmet. The only part of the helmet that is tested to a more stringent standard is the very top, where a 5kg mass is dropped from 2m instead of 50cm.

I've used the bolle ONE premium as a one helmet quiver for a while. It has a removable thermal liner and cover. Hot days? No cover. Rockfall in the near future? Cover. Going skiing? Thermal liner

Re petzl testing. A lot of certs have superficial meanings to them. The biggest thing with ski touring vs downhill skiing is heat. Often uphill you are trying to dump as much as possible vs having a warm cozy brain bucket on a lift. I haven't seen figures but I'd guess the number of ski poles through helmets for ski tourers vs colliding on your jeans on the slopes of Vail is very different. I'm always in a helmet, even on the uphill, and will gladly take a little more ventilation so i can wear a helmet in rockfall areas vs a ball cap. All sports are about assumed risk and the risk of damage from ski pole through the helmet vent vs getting bopped by a baseball sized rock while wearing a cap is something i will live with. I've got an ice ax spike and other sharp edges that can take the bulk of my impaling fears anyways

Pat Light wrote:

5kg mass dropped from 50 cm and transferring less than 10 kN to the headform (the Petzl test for Top and Side Protection) = nearly the exact same test as the UIAA and EN perform to the upper sides of the helmet, except UIAA actually requires less than 8 kN of force transferred to the headform. See reference below from Climbing Mag.

So, conversationally, we might say that Petzl tests the side/front/back of the helmet to the same standard as the EN tests the upper sides of the helmet. The only part of the helmet that is tested to a more stringent standard is the very top, where a 5kg mass is dropped from 2m instead of 50cm.

Yes, compared to an EN climbing helmet it is basically extending the area of side/back protection.

But compared to ski/bike helmets those side/rear impacts tested are less severe as best as I can tell. Which isn't at all surprising if you hold a typical ski or bike helmet next to a climbing helmet. 

Fabien M wrote:

Movement 3tech Alpi 

This. Triple certified.

https://skimo.co/movement-3tech-alpi-helmet

What I’ve been reading about bike helmets is that they are usually rated for 1m of fall on various surfaces with a 5kg weight but do not specify what parts of the head need to be protected. helmets.org/standard.htm

Ski helmets (EN 1077 class B) are essentially the Petzl tests for the sides and rear except the drop height is .375m and it doesn’t specify where the drops need to be focused upon except that they need to be 100mm apart. So if anything the petzl cert appears to be a little more rigorous than the EN-1077. ccl-international.com/wp-co…

The problem with Petzl’s extensive testing on the front, sides, rear of helmets is that those helmets provide insufficient head coverage. And MIPS technology in a climbing helmet is half of a joke if the helmet provides insufficient coverage. 

George Bracksieck wrote:

The problem with Petzl’s extensive testing on the front, sides, rear of helmets is that those helmets provide insufficient head coverage. And MIPS technology in a climbing helmet is half of a joke if the helmet provides insufficient coverage. 

The meteor and Sirroco have lots of coverage as do many other skimo and climbing helmets. My current cycling helmet covers less of my head  than my current climbing helmet does. 

Ben M wrote:

The meteor and Sirroco have lots of coverage as do many other skimo and climbing helmets. My current cycling helmet covers less of my head  than my current climbing helmet does. 

Bike helmets stick out in the front, sides, rear such that impact against a hard surface is mitigated more completely. I’m not trying to promote wearing bike helmets for climbing, however. I’m just trying to get climbing helmets to be safer. Yesterday, I cringed as I watched my partner lead a difficult pitch while wearing a Petzl Elios, which sat high on her head and exposed most of the back of her head. That helmet is worthless. 

Getting climbing helmets to meet those standards would require more weight/bulk. 

But you can certainly get a dual certified helmet to climb in. A couple of good ones have been listed up thread. I've gone sport climbing in my Ascender when I didn't feel like packing an additional climbing helmet on a fly away trip. It's fine but you definitely notice it more than a Vapor, Wall Rider etc..