The perfect blend between a trail runner and an approach shoe

Just to add another opinion...

To answer the first question, no I don't think the perfect shoe exists.  I think you need a few pairs of shoes in your quiver and, unfortunately, carry a second pair on some outings.  My three favourite options:

LS Kaptiva is a sweet shoe for low fifth class scrambling.  It has LS white rubber which is their stickiest rubber for running shoes and the same rubber used on the Mutant.  Once the tread wears down a bit they are very good for scrambling.  Plus they feel like a performance running shoe when running because they are a performance running shoe.  I'm surprised this shoe isn't more popular.  Compared to the Bushidos, I find the Kaptiva's run and climb much better.

LS TX2.  A step up from the Kaptiva's for climbing.  Very good climbing ability, especially smearing.  I find they perform very well as a running shoe as well.  Uphill running they feel as good as my LS VK's.  Downhill they are a bit slippery on loose rocks and mud because they have so little tread but otherwise they are fine.  I would rather fall on the trail than on the climb so I don't mind the tradeoff of the low tread profile.

LS Kaptiva plus rock climbing shoes.  For routes with dangerous fall potential where I'm not confident in running shoes.   For instance I go this route of i am free soloing above my 'running shoe climbing level.'  But if I am using a rope and falls are safe I'm more likely just climb in the Kaptiva's or TX2's.  

A small semi-related tangent question:

If a climb warrants bringing a climbing shoe along then what would the best shoe be? Regardless of performance, more so in terms of weight and packability. 

Irreverent Bastard wrote:

A small semi-related tangent question:

If a climb warrants bringing a climbing shoe along then what would the best shoe be? Regardless of performance, more so in terms of weight and packability. 

Some sort of light slipper presumably? Mocc, Cobra, etc. Tradeoff is less crack protection, edge support. B Basically anything other than a high top climberin shoe (TCs) for sure.

LS Mutant are nice for long approaches, run well, and scramble comfortably up to low 5th. Would not want to climb 5.8 in them though. More a running shoe than approach shoe. Climbs/ scrambles a bit better as it ages and the lugs gets worm down.

Anyone used the new Scarpa Ribelle Run?

Irreverent Bastard wrote:

A small semi-related tangent question:

If a climb warrants bringing a climbing shoe along then what would the best shoe be? Regardless of performance, more so in terms of weight and packability. 

Honestly I don't know if weight/packability is really all that crazy different between a TC Pro and a Mocc. If I need a climbing shoe, I kind of question just WTF I'm doing out there. If I need a separate shoe to run to the destination, that means I'm a few miles out, and probably not soloing something I can't crawl back on bloody stumps on what's left of my legs and I may have a rope, harness, and light rack with me anyways but that's just me.

jacob m s wrote:

I have not tried them but have been doing some looking of my own and have been interested in the selewa wildfire. one reviewer did a ten mile trail run in them. They don't climb as good as many approach shoes so may not be what you are looking for. 

Edit* selewa added the wildfire edge this year that is designed to allow you to adjust the laces such that you can comfortably hike in them then tighten them enough that you can climb well.

I wouldn't want to run in the wildfires. I've owned two pairs, which I love as dedicated approach shoes, however they have very little padding under the forefoot, and I can't imagine they would be good to run in. I'm also not really into running so ymmv.

TX Guide is close to what you want... but it is quite narrow, so if you are on the lots of toe room side of the running spectrum (Altra) they wont work for you. If you run in snug shoes comfortably for many miles they may work.

I don't feel like I have particularly wide feet, but I feel like as narrow as they are, even if I size for regular approach shoe toe room (toes not hitting the end going downhill after a long day), I feel like the sides of my feet would be blistered and miserable in TX Guide. I could probably do them for short approaches though.

I have wanted to try out the Salewa Wildfire Edge, since it claims a system to quickly tighten up and push heel forward for closer to a climbing fit when desired.

I recently found some older Asolo NUCLEON GVs (actually they were women's but fit me really well) at Sierra Trading Post and have been extremely happy with them.  They are just a tad heavier than any trail runner I've looked at there and they have vibram soles, goretex upper and a good sturdy rubber toe cap.  I haven't done too much climbing with them but I think they would hold up pretty well and at least for my feet they can fit almost as tight as a climbing shoe while still being plenty comfortable to walk in for miles without hot spot issues or fatigue.

Edit: actually realized they are the Pipe GV.

Long Ranger wrote:

Honestly I don't know if weight/packability is really all that crazy different between a TC Pro and a Mocc. 

To my way of thinking, it's relatively substantial, especially when you're trying to fit an "all day" load into a 16L pack, which is what I try to use on things like the OP is referring to (long, easy/mod days, with much more mileage than actual climbing, and all climbing quite easy). Mocs will squash into the pack pretty nice, TC's will prob use an extra 0.4L of space. not much, but adds up when you don't have much space in the first place.

Has anyone checked out the ribelle run from scarpa? Smooth climbing toe which usually makes standing on blocking alpine routes a bit more secure. Looks promising to me

Christian Hesch wrote:

To my way of thinking, it's relatively substantial, especially when you're trying to fit an "all day" load into a 16L pack, which is what I try to use on things like the OP is referring to (long, easy/mod days, with much more mileage than actual climbing, and all climbing quite easy). Mocs will squash into the pack pretty nice, TC's will prob use an extra 0.4L of space. not much, but adds up when you don't have much space in the first place.

Eh, then where are you going to put your probably much larger trail runners when you're doing all this quite easy climbing? My guess for both is on the outside of your pack. A 16L pack is gunna be pretty much filled with just those trail runners if you put them inside your pack. But the other part of my point was: if I need rock shoes, I should probably have a rope with me, 'cause wtf am I really getting into I'm not Alex Honnlove. At least in the areas I'm scrambling in the alpine, the easy climbs are a little annoying with rock shoes, as there's a lot of Class 3 (or below) in the pitch. I'm thinking like Kieners or even Keyhole Ridge on Longs.

Long Ranger wrote:

Eh, then where are you going to put your probably much larger trail runners when you're doing all this quite easy climbing? My guess for both is on the outside of your pack. A 16L pack is gunna be pretty much filled with just those trail runners if you put them inside your pack. But the other part of my point was: if I need rock shoes, I should probably have a rope with me,....

in the Mountain Hardwear MP16 (sometimes I use the newer MP20, but the older MP16 is usually enough) I will have a 60m rope (7.3), mocs, jacket, two 500ml disposable water bottles, sandwich, headlamp, clif bars, floppy dad hat, harness (beal ghost), chalkbag, and belay device. Partner has small rack, everything is inside the pack. Occasionally I'll have to flip out the mesh side pouch for the water bottles but that's no biggie. If the mocs are out, the rope probably is as well, so there's more than enough room.

Definitely waiting for some feedback on the Ribelle Run as well.  Hoping it's not lasted the same as the Rapids as those were tight on the forefoot for sure. If they just made a wide they'd be great.

I have the TX Guide, way to narrow for my f@cked  up feet.  Good climbing shoe, not so good approach shoe.

I’ve been using the Ultra Raptors for hiking, backpacking, and super easy solos.  I just bought two pairs, one for the trails and the other pair I brought into Greater Tahoe Gripworks to put on a approach sole.  Super excited to see how they work now.

Cannot  say enough on how good of work Chris does on his resoles! 

Petch wrote:

Oh hell yeah.

^^ How much does the shoe weigh now?  I’ve found climbing rubber is quite dense, so a full resole of it makes a runner pretty clunky and hardens up the heal cushioning significantly.  A 1/4 - 1/2 sole seems more ideal.

Great thread, I'm in a similar boat, but my wide feet constrain options. I queried an ultra-runner/scrambler friend recently and he recommended the scarpa spins, esp. for ppl w wide feet.

If you're looking for a zero-drop shoe for better body mechanics, then the Altra Lone Peak's may be a good choice.

I just pulled the trigger on the new Scarpa Rapids, hopefully I can put out a little review of them here next week.

Detrick S wrote: If you're looking for a zero-drop shoe for better body mechanics, then the Altra Lone Peak's may be a good choice.

For running and thru hiking I bet they’re great and they’ve got their fans, but not the model I’d climb in. Toe box is all wrong- it’ll feel real loose and baggy. Rubber is not super sticky. 

you're asking for two types of work from one pair of shoes. climbing 5.8 and running lots of miles do not usually get done in the same footwear. maybe resole running shoes with sticky rubber.