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The perfect blend between a trail runner and an approach shoe
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Does it exist? I've been on the hunt for a shoe like this for a while. Something light and flexible enough that my feet will stay happy running a lot of miles, yet also burly enough and with sticky enough rubber to climb ~5.8 or so. Bringing two pairs of shoes for running something like the Tenaya-Matthes-Cathedral linkup just felt kinda silly, but I also don't feel solid climbing in my usual trail runners, Salomon Speedcrosses. Something like LS TX2's still feel too stiff and clunky to comfortably run in. The new Scarpa Rapids seem like the best candidate I've seen but haven't tried them yet. Thoughts? |
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I was really psyched for the Rapids but they were too narrow across the ball of the foot for me. I thought they fit similar to TX2s, which also don't work for me. If that's not a problem for you I say try them out, they definitely seem like what you are looking for. A couple other options to check out are the Sportiva Wildcat and Ultra Raptor, although neither of them is going to climb quite like a real approach shoe. |
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patagonia rover RIP |
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Norvan VT |
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My partner loves the TX Guides. Does running, workouts, and all our approaches in them. Not sure if those are too stiff for ya though. Definitely one of the best options for climbing more technical terrain |
John Sigmon wrote: My personal experience with the Norvan LT has been disappointing to say the least. While it is firmly a "trail runner", I find the tread composition lackluster, strike plate sup-par, and in general, an extremely mediocre runner. I'd love to see a different midsole construction as well for a mileage shoe (as it's intended to be used). The TX guide seems to be the one that comes close enough to fits this bill -- maybe even the TX 2 (I've run 6-8 miles on trails in 'em on climbing trips) -- but I think the reason that this might be a fruitless prospect is simple: performance trail shoes are sized categorically differently than performance approach shoes. Either the climbing will be sub-par, or the running will be painful (and risking injury) -- especially with long/steep descents. I'd assume you'd be carrying a vest or some hydration pack, why not throw some Moccs or comfy traddy shoes? Yeah you have to stop and swap, but seems worth it if there's a performance leap a proper trail runner can't span. |
Short Fall Sean wrote: Ultra Raptor has great friction for slab (my primary hiking shoe). I did a 5.3 (Clippity Do Dah) at Rumney in them, they don't edge well. |
Mike V. wrote: That's good to know. I've never owned a pair but have been thinking of checking them out. I'm generally not trying to climb harder than maybe a bit of 5.6 in my approach shoes, so friction on slabs and in hand-sized or bigger cracks is more important than edging. (Anyone who claims you "edge" on 5.6 has a different definition of edging than I do.) |
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I have not tried them but have been doing some looking of my own and have been interested in the selewa wildfire. one reviewer did a ten mile trail run in them. They don't climb as good as many approach shoes so may not be what you are looking for. Edit* selewa added the wildfire edge this year that is designed to allow you to adjust the laces such that you can comfortably hike in them then tighten them enough that you can climb well. |
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funny you should ask this, I wore Pegasus Turbo 2's for the triple this weekend and I was flabbergasted by how well they stick on slab... also brought a loose pair of mocs for anything that actually required climbing but could have done all of tenaya with the pegs (used mocs for last 200ft, but didn't need to), and it made all the difference to enjoy good cushion between routes. Really really shocked at how well they did on anything up to 5.5/5.6, and about 3x the cushion of a tx2, but lighter weight! |
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I've been a fan of the Sportiva Mutant for scrambling up to 5.5, decent for trail running and great on 3rd, 4th and low 5th class ridge lines |
Mike V. wrote: Ultra Raptor is my usual talus hopping/ridge scrambling shoe. I haven’t climbed 5.8 in them, but I have climbed lots of 5.5 and below. I wore them 34 hours straight once and didn’t even get a blister. I’ve also used them for straight trail running, and they are fine but I prefer a different shoe for that. |
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The soles on Wildcat and Ultra Raptor have these rubber ball bearing features that make climbing miserable, if not dangerous, IMO - at least until they tear off. +1 for the Mutant as Sportiva's top shoe for actually running technical trails in. The bizarre lacing does a good job of preventing rolling and the toe box is comfortable. I might half sole a pr of these at some point for scrambling, many others have. Also +1 to just carry a pr of climbing slippers - maximize fun and safety - it's not a big deal to toss a pr into a running pack, if that's a significant part of your objective - if you're not yet one of those scrambling freaks who have normalized climbing in running shoes. |
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Anyone worn the LS Akyra? I have ultra raptors and looks like those have a more capped toe and a similar tread? |
Matthew Tangeman wrote: If TX2's are stiff, I'd like to know what you consider adequately flexible for running? If they just don't fit you then I get it, but they are pretty flexible and what I consider my most runnable approach shoes. They also fit me perfectly which helps. I don't wear them specifically for running, but I don't feel like a running shoe would save me any time on approaches/descents when I'm in them. Perhaps you need to try on more approach shoes and find one that really fits, then just run in that? What type of running shoes do you like? I like very low cushion, low drop shoes, so TX2's feel much more runnable than the TX Guide, despite the fact that the Guides are marketed as a hybrid run/approach shoe. You could resole a running shoe with sticky rubber. Call the Rubber Room in Bishop. They do a sticky rubber with a diamond groove pattern. Would be great on dry trails, not so great for mud/snow. |
Will Eginton wrote: Th LT and VT are different shoes. I don’t have a clue if they have the same strike plate though. |
Evan Gerry wrote: Akyra is a heavier and stiffer shoe than Ultra Raptor, but lighter than the TX3-TXGuide. Probably LS’s best all day work shoe, or for hiking with up to a light pack on trails. Poor choice for running or scrambling. |
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Just got a pair of TX2s and took them on a Flatiron circuit the other day. They are definitely not stiff. Snug fit, solid heel counter, super light weight upper, very flexible in the forefoot. Solid performer going up on flatiron sandstone and on the trail coming down from the First Flatiron saddle. Definitely runnable though more than 5-7 miles could be a bit much. Follow Up: Did a couple of 5.12s today in the Boulder Rock Club in the TX2s. Definitely not regretting buying them so far. 2nd Follow Up. Did a 2nd Flatiron/Green Mountain run combo in the TX2s and they are pretty decent as trail runner for an almost 5 mile excursion. |
Christian Hesch wrote: Like the Nike ones? That's not something I'd considered. Wild! |
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Here's my notes on this topic. "Perfect Balance" is hard to come by, as the constraints that make a good approach shoe and a good trail runner sometimes fall on opposite ends of the spectrum. To use one example: a trail runner should be roomy in the toe box to allow for your feet to swell and your toes to not hit the front of the shoe. An approach shoe (or just a good climbing shoe) can be much tighter for the best performance. A good climber with lots of experience climbing with an approach shoe will do well climbing in them - and also know their weaknesses and avoid using them on that type of terrain. Edging is usually one of those weaknesses. For a trail runner I try to get away with not having to bring another pair of shoes, I usually grab the Mutant. It's sticky enough, but it's more about familiarity. I know what I've done with the shoe already, so there's some built in confidence baked in there. But still we're talking 5.easy stuff. Maybe some of the harder things I've done is something like Jagged Peak, or Dallas Peak - where it seems silly to bring another pair of shoes for a small pitch of climbing. I've done Wham Ridge in Mutants, but the scrambling is not all that hard and very similar to the flatirons, which I have great confidence being on, with literally anything (or nothing!). But (for example) when I did the Milner to Berthoud Pass traverse, which is littered with really great 5.easy routes, I took a pair of TX2's to boost my confidence. If I was a better climber, I could have gotten away with less, but I'm not a better climber, and being alone, with a pack and very exhausted/sleep deprived much of the time I didn't mind carrying the extra weight for something like the north ridge of Paiute Peak, north ridge of Mt. Toll, or the north face of Navajo. So I'm left with, "it depends". I may put an order for the TX Guide Leather, as it does look like the lacing system will allow some variation in toebox tightnights and it edges better than the TX3's. |
Matthew Tangeman wrote: Yes, the new Peg Turbos have a different sole rubber (diff from the first gen peg turbo) in a lattice shape that, for whatever reason, sticks like glue to slab. I’d say they’ll stick to 85-90% of what a tx2/4 will stick to, and you know damn well you don’t want to put more than 5-7mi on tx2’s. You can easily run/scramble 20-25mi in peg turbos and legs will still feel reasonable the next day. Look on eBay for a decent used pair (or might find a new old stock pair for 80ish bucks). |
