Gyms Removing Auto-belays

Curious what you guys think, our gym is now removing their auto-belays (I assume as a response to both law suits and recent accidents).

“This pause will allow us time to participate in industry conversations as they relate to the continued use of auto belays and make decisions on when, how or if they will be reintroduced into our facilities.”

I use auto-belays almost every time I’m in the gym, so this is a little weird and frustrating. I use them as warm ups for hard bouldering for strength workouts, when I can’t find a partner or waiting for a late partner to show up, never had an issue and they always seem pretty safe to me. Curious what you guys think about removing auto belays in response to what’s going on? Are they really that dangerous? Is there something we can do to make them safer? 

No, auto belays are not dangerous. People are dangerous. I wouldn’t be surprised if gyms starting paying an extra employee to stand around and make sure folks are clipped in properly, with a nominal increase in membership cost.

Chris M wrote:

Curious what you guys think, our gym is now removing their auto-belays (I assume as a response to both law suits and recent accidents).

“This pause will allow us time to participate in industry conversations as they relate to the continued use of auto belays and make decisions on when, how or if they will be reintroduced into our facilities.”

I use auto-belays almost every time I’m in the gym, so this is a little weird and frustrating. I use them as warm ups for hard bouldering for strength workouts, when I can’t find a partner or waiting for a late partner to show up, never had an issue and they always seem pretty safe to me. Curious what you guys think about removing auto belays in response to what’s going on? Are they really that dangerous? Is there something we can do to make them safer? 

As I predicted long ago gyms are finally realizing that keeping auto belays will eventually lead to one of their customers being maimed or killed. 

Gyms tried many solutions, all thwarted by patrons. The solution now is to remove them.

If only they had listened to me earlier, lives could have been saved.

Just what we do everywhere, with almost anything over the long run.

Nothing is ever really "safe" enough, because once you remove whatever is riskier, or happened to cause/be implicated in a few accidents, recently, well whatever is left still include some risk. Eventually the "whatever that's left" will cause/be implicated in an accident as well, and thus there will be more rules, changes, or removal altogether.

I'm not surprised.

No, I don't think auto-belays are particularly dangerous. Not really that much more or less than anything that puts you in a situation where a ground fall can cause serious injury.

the problem as I see it...

The human condition.

Not a fan. Good riddance.

“Safe” is an illusion! Cars are as “safe” as they have ever been, but people still have accidents and die. I would say the illusion of the “safeness” of the gym has an affect on people’s subconscious minds and are more easily lulled to sleep. The heightened risk of climbing mixed with beautiful colored walls, music, and happy people can increase distractions, which can result in accidents.

Accidents in climbing are going to happen, there is no way anyone can have an 100 percent success rate in gyms or life.

As a lot of people say on here…

YUR GONNA DIE…one day.

another thread to tie into top roping can be dangerous/experience is overrated. I feel like a crusty person but I’m anti auto belay(but I don’t go to the gym anyway). For training you can do whatever you need on a spray wall or top roping with a partner. In addition it lowers the morale of the place to have people with head phones on which is ironic if gyms are really trying to create that community feel. Either be a training center or a community center either way you don’t need auto belays. 

Trevor Taylor wrote:

In addition it lowers the morale of the place to have people with head phones on which is ironic if gyms are really trying to create that community feel. Either be a training center or a community center either way you don’t need auto belays. 

The morale of the place? Sorry, I like my headphones. I don’t see why a climbing gym can’t be a training center for some and community center for others.

I’ve never had autobelays available at my gyms, but I do wish we had them.

Trevor Taylor wrote:

(...) I feel like a crusty person but I’m anti auto belay(but I don’t go to the gym anyway). (...)

Great. I really needed you to provide expert opinion on something you don't use in a place you never go. Thanks for fulfilling that niche.

Tradiban wrote:

As I predicted long ago gyms are finally realizing that keeping auto belays will eventually lead to one of their customers being maimed or killed. 

Gyms tried many solutions, all thwarted by patrons. The solution now is to remove them.

If only they had listened to me earlier, lives could have been saved.

Meh, I blame the teachers/orientation staff.

sDawg wrote:

Labs don't let highly trained and skilled personnel do electrical or chemical work alone.

Just FYI, in the 30 years I did work with all kinds of dangerous chemicals in various university and private labs, there was never any rule about working alone.

Climbing is dangerous...but lawyers are more dangerous...

I'm about to repeat hearsay from a gym manager.  He told me that the brand of autobelay in his gym (the same brand used for speed competitions), states in the manual that an employee or representative of the gym must be present when the climber sets up to use the device.  This fact was dug up by lawyers for the recent accident victim and forms the basis for a negligence claim.  I think that manual entry might have been written to cover speed competitions, but is interpretable as applying to all uses.  If so, the first thing one would hope for is that the manuals get rewritten so as not to provide an actual basis for lawsuits, given that it is impractical for gyms to supervise all autobelay users.

There seem to be two problems with autobelays.  (1) People get in some kind of "zone," and climb up without clipping in.  Honestly, this level of inattention is incomprehensible to me, but there you have it.  The solution seems to be ever bigger fabric "hold shields" at the base that make it impossible to start up the climb.  One would think this would do the trick.  (2) People clip in, but imperfectly.  The carabiner gets nose-hooked on the harness belay loop and then comes off when the system is weighted or just somewhere during the ascent.  This seems like a less tractable problem, as it involves something that may very superficially look ok and the device may appear to be functioning.  I've heard that some manufacturers are moving to a double clip-in system on the theory that you aren't likely to mess up both clips.

In my current gym, we sign a waiver on every visit.  I haven't read it carefully, but the manager thinks it is strong enough to counter a claim of negligence based on the autobelay manual,  But of course, the gym still has to go to court and might find it preferable to settle the case.

Various levels of distraction are always going to cause accidents, indoors and out, and we have plenty of evidence that climbing expertise does not confer immunity.  What seems unusual, and I think antithetical to the emphasis on personal responsibility which is part of climbing, is that someone would sue because they were not prevented from making a stupid mistake.

I like autobelays.

As a beginner I liked that all I needed to know to start climbing in a gym was: how to put on a harness, how and where to clip the autobelay. I didn’t need a partner, I didn’t need to learn how to belay or tie knots, I didn’t need to take a class. Autobelays lowered the skill bar and got me hooked. 16 years later and I’m still hooked.

I like that I can run into the gym and get a solid endurance workout in without a partner. I like that I can meet other people who are also on the autobelays and partner up with them. I like that I can get some laps in when my partner’s running late. I like that I can warm up before a bouldering session.

I like that it’s as simple as clipping in correctly before I leave the ground. I take responsibility for my life all every day, and feel fine doing it in the climbing gym too.

My wife will only go to a gym with auto belays so the gym will lose a customer.

As to the hooked carabineer it would be very easy to put an electronic switch in the auto belay so it does not work unless the carabineer is closed.  Add a sensor near the bottom of the route so that alarms go off if someone touches a hold 10 feet up and the auto belay is not active.

I would cancel my membership at the gym if not for their 6 auto belays. Having said that, I did talk with a yoga instructor there who forgot to clip in and broke her back while climbing early in the morning. I have not heard of any other incidents but there may have been others. 

rgold wrote:

Various levels of distraction are always going to cause accidents, indoors and out, and we have plenty of evidence that climbing expertise does not confer immunity.  What seems unusual, and I think antithetical to the emphasis on personal responsibility which is part of climbing, is that someone would sue because they were not prevented from making a stupid mistake.

Is, or was... I think with the broadening appeal of climbing to a wide audience, this may or not still hold true, or just not as much. Also the way people get into climbing has changed, and may not instill a sens of personal responsability as much.

I always appreciated getting to know people by climbing with/next to them. The chain of gyms I went to a few years back never had auto belays, it forced me to be social enough to find partners which was good because there were some great lead walls at that gym. 

Like the fellow said upthread,  it could be made safer but why? Go boulder 

I think it’s nice to have autobelays. Makes it a lot easier to do arc training.  

climber pat wrote:

As to the hooked carabineer it would be very easy to put an electronic switch in the auto belay so it does not work unless the carabineer is closed.  Add a sensor near the bottom of the route so that alarms go off if someone touches a hold 10 feet up and the auto belay is not active.

This seems like the obvious answer. Like the seatbelt alarm in your car. (Also, wouldn't need to touch a hold, just have the auto belay retracted x amount, right?) Is the added idiot alarm not a thing? I haven't heard of it, but I don't know auto belays.