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One haul bag or two?
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My climbing partner and I are looking to do our first big wall - we'll be doing one of the easier ones in Yosemite. For someone like us new to big wall climbing, but otherwise experienced in multipitch/ropework/etc is it better to put everything into one big haul bag like a Zion 145, or have two mid sized bags for easier access? Also, how do the logistics of the approach work? For a 3-4 day climb, does a climbing pair just swap off carrying the haul bag on the approach if carrying one big one? Or carry an additional pack and leave it at the base? We're trying to get some decent suggestions from the experienced folks so that this doesn't turn into one big ol' logistical cluster... :-) |
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Which wall are y’all looking at in particular? If you’re looking at a wall like SF on WC. I’d recommend just a single pig. Dinner ledge is only 3 pitches up, and what do you really need in the pig before 3 pitches are done?. If you’re looking at WF on Leaning Tower, I’d go with the side by side 2 for the hanging belays. Then you have something to stand on and don’t have to dig as deep...maybe A good way to approach with one pig is one person has the haul bag, loaded with the water and wall stuff. And a rope. The other person gets the rack and the other rope. Stash a backpack |
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My first wall experience was climbing a couple walls in Zion where we didn't have to haul anything (could fix and come back the next day). It helped us learn how to aid without worrying about hauling and managing heavy loads. Just the climbing alone was a big learning curve for us, and it helped to not have to deal with bags. Then when we did our first Yosemite walls, the logistics and labor of carrying everything up and down and hauling become the only thing we really needed to learn and figure out. For example, when we climbed South Face of Washington Column, the crux was by far the approach. I was carrying the bag with way too much stuff and water, and my partner had the rack and a rope. The approach for me was really strenuous and the 3rd class bit at the end was scary at the time (and hilarious in retrospect—I'm 6' but only 140, so it was really easy to lose balance). We shared the route with two other parties who bailed because of the climbing...but for us the climbing was easy, it was getting all that shit to dinner ledge that was hard because we had never done it before. If we had to bail I would have been pretty disappointed, I would have felt like I carried all that stuff up there only to fail. I'd suggest first doing some multipitch aid lines where you don't need to haul, so that a C1/C2 route is straightforward and you can move efficiently as a team. Then when you add hauling you can enjoy all the exhaustion and clusterfucks that come with that without worrying about the other stuff too. I've come to really love aid climbing but it feels soooo different than free climbing, it's an entirely different skillset. If we had tried to haul in Zion I think we would have been so exhausted by the climbing and dealing with bags that we wouldn't have been able to develop any skills, and instead would have just been totally spent. My two cents...I'd say that reading Higher Education cover to cover and then first climbing in Zion where we didn't have to haul anything is what made our first wall experiences in Yosemite successful. We were still tested a bunch, but we never came close to bailing. As the ranger said to us when she issued us a permit for El Cap, "Don't bail, don't die." |
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Can't help you until we know the wall you're intending to do. As what is easy for me may not be easy for you and vice versa. The "easy ones" tend to be Washington Column or Leaning Tower, both of which allow you to pass back by the base on your descent. Other longer easier ones like Lurking Fear or Zodiac don't allow you to come back to the base so the logistics are different. Same goes for Lost Arrow Spire depending upon your method of descent. More obscure but "easy" walls like Jericho Wall allow for stashing at the base, while Watkins, sort of lets you stash depending upon how early you stash. Good Ole Boy on Camp 4 wall also will not allow you to Return by the base |
Jeff Luton wrote: Lurking Fear on El Cap was recommended to us by someone we know. But if that looks too daunting we're aiming for Washington Column for a first wall. We're still putting the pieces together - ideally we'd like something that is logistically simpler and takes 3-4 days. |
Fail Falling wrote: Yes - Lurking Fear is the one we're aiming for. But I get what you're saying: the approach logistics would depend on whether we can get back to the base easily. |
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Ok. If your goal is a 3-4 day wall then Lurking fear is a good choice. Nothing "easy" on Washington Column takes more than 2 days. Lurking Fear has a few more variables:
Other things about Lurking Fear is the the hauling can get crappy so having a single bag will be better than two bags side by side or linked in series. Also Lurking Fear has a loooot of slab freight hauling to get to the summit then a rather long descent across the top of El Cap to get to the East Ledges. Sooooooo: If you're walking off and bringing a portaledge, You'll definitely want a Zion-sized bag and a partner that enjoys hiking down with lots of gear attached to their chest and waist harness and day pack. But it won't be as bad on the approach because many will do two separate carries so you can bring most of the heavy stuff up in two bags and then bring the bags you don't need back down to the car before the final approach If you're walking off and not bringing a portaledge, then I normally go with two touchstone-sized bags so the descent is easier for both or one Touchstone and my partner agrees to carry a bunch of crap on their harnesses and day pack. If you're rapping with or without a portaledge then bring whatever is going to be the easier on the hauling and leave the remaining bags at the base. - - - So here's another option that I do but is certainly not considered normal: For shorter walls (anything under 5 days) To make the descent easier when I have a portaledge I like to bring a Black Diamond Zion-sized haulbag and have my partner bring a Black Diamond Touchstone-sized bag. Then at the base of the climb, we'll put the Touchstone-sized bag inside of the Zion-sized bag (you don't even need to remove the waist belt or tuck the shoulder straps lol). This makes thing a bit easier to grab and allows enough space for the portaledge on the walk off descent. |
Fail Falling wrote: We're planning on getting a portaledge, and will practice with it while off the ground on a single pitch to get the basics down (including setting up sleeping bags in it). We're looking to make this as idiot-proof as possible, so walking off would be much preferred to rapping the whole way down. This is what I'm having trouble getting my head around, even after searching this forum (could be using the wrong search words)... 1 - say we buy a Zion 145 which will just fit our portaledge, sleeping bags, extra equipment, water, food, and clothing (but not our harnesses, helmets, rope etc) 2 - on the approach, I assume we just wear our harnesses and helmets. But do we strap all the other gear (including the ropes) to one of us, and the other carries the haul bag? Or do we get a smaller bag which we can stuff into the big haul bag? 3 - on the walk off, is it the same deal, do we alternate carrying the haul bag and the other person carries gear strapped to them? Really appreciate the help from you guys! Z. |
Zubin Chandran wrote: 1. This is not a question. 2. Fail Falling wrote: Or Kevin DeWeese wrote: 3. See responses to 2. |
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I lot of your questions will become clear once you do it. Try laying out all the gear you need, packing it as if you're going climbing, and then walk around the block and up a few flights of stairs. |
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I just did my first big walls this season and I'll share my limited perspective. We did Skull Queen on WC, then Lurking Fear on El Cap. We only had one haul bag, but we also had a Petzl Bug as a leader pack. For both climbs, we carried our water, ropes, harnesses, and portaledge (LF only) up the day before. Food, rack, sleep setup, and everything else was carried up the day of the climb. We left a 50L pack at the base of SQ, so coming down that was fine. Nothing was left at the base of El Cap. For LF, one person carried both ropes and the full rack in the leader pack while the other carried everything else (including the portaledge) in the haul bag (we had the Metolious El Cap bag). It freaking sucked to carry that haulbag down the East Ledges. You may want to pack a very compressible, lightweight, 40+L pack in the haulbag just to help carry more of the load down. Of course, the other option is two smaller haulbags, which will be heavier. Both walls were great introductions to big walling. |
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Something like the MH MP30 (or the old MP25, if you can find one) is clutch for walkoffs. The pack can easily fit a full bigwall rack, IF you have even a modicum of tetris skills (obvi the #4 and larger will clip to the back), and the ropes can be strapped to the top, meaning the partner carrying the haulbag should be carrying a more relatively equal load on the way down. Initially use this as you food/water pack, inside the haulbag, and then it will be empty (or at least close enough) when you top out, allowing for repack of the gear/heavy stuff. |
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When I did Lurking Fear my partner and I tried to get everything to fit in a single haul bag but it was hopeless. We ended up bringing two haul bags and that worked out much better. I would suggest getting a haul bag that is sized for future routes you plan on doing. |
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Skot and I always use two Metolius Half Domes for our routes. |
Adam Fleming wrote: We're going to carry a bunch of the gear up the day before like you did - looks like our schedule will allow that. It looks like the compressible pack will be our best option on the walk-off. We're committed to a large haul bag on LF since we want the portaledge, but we haven't ruled out using a big haul bag plus a mid size haul bag. |
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When we did lurking fear we had one big bag (Zion) and a small metolius sentinel. Having a second pack made splitting up the weight easier on the descent and gave us a bit of extra space. I also liked having a smaller bag for the day stuff, like the days water, food, rain jackets, and a layer so we didn't need to get into the big bag during the day. Also just to clarify one of the OP's questions. The portaledge doesn't go in a haul bag during the climb. (unless you have one of the inflatable G7's). they have their own haul bag and you just clip it in under the big bag. You only would put the ledge in the haul bag for the approach or descent. If you tried to put the ledge into the haul bag during the climb you would have to completely empty and repack the bag every day which would be a colossal waste of time. For lurking fear we got all our stuff up in two trips. The first day we hiked up all the gear and ropes and fixed to pitch 3. the next day we hiked up with the clothes food, water, and ledge. The second trip was heavy and could have been broken into 2 trips but we went slow and it wasn't too bad. |
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I have a metolious double ledge. I’ve been tying mine to my haulbag vertically to the back of the pig with my docking cord for approach and decent. Works well and really only crux out going under trees once or twice per approach and decent. Beats carrying the damn thing |
Mydans wrote: I think that's the plan that we're gravitating to. I just finished Andy Kirkpatrick's big wall book cover to cover, and he recommends ferrying gear on the approach with a maximum load of 25-30kg. So my partner and I are planning on making 2 trips to the base the day before. Then we will go early in the morning on climbing day with very light loads. I didn't understand that the portaledge can go underneath the haul bag when climbing. That will make things easier. It's our first big wall, so we're giving ourselves plenty of margin for fumbling. |
Zubin Chandran wrote: I'm hoping that by "underneath the haul bag" you mean attach it to a catch line that will hang below the haul bags as opposed to clipping the ledge underneath the haul bag. The former is quick and convenient whereas the latter takes more time to rap down to get to the ledge for setup and breakdown |
Fail Falling wrote: A lot of this is only going to make sense to us once we buy our haul bags. But if the portaledge bag is clipped directly to the bottom of the haul bag, wouldn't that still be within arm's reach? |
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Tether cords! Figure out how to do it now but you DON’T want to drop your ledge. |
