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how to get your feet to stick on steep or bulges???
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It's summer and I'm thinking about rock and...oh yeah, MP has an ice topic, and there's something I didn't get to last season .... I can't get my feet to stick on bulges on steep ice. I kick and it just feels like I'm hitting the top of my boot or the top of my front points, not the point. Nothing sticks. I really doubt it's anything like too much overhang on my boot - I just suck and my technique is wrong. Without a steep "wall" underneath, I don't have any problem e.g. topping out on a shelf, or a bulge where it's still not steeper than vertical at my feet. I know not to get too stretched out. But anytime I can't see my feet, or my feet have to go a bit forward of my hips, I just kick and nothing sticks. Any hints for someone like me obviously doing it wrong? I'll never get to leading 5's if I don't fix this! Thanks thanks thanks, -TPC |
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Yer dropping your toes. https://chickswithpicks.net/cramponing-technique/ |
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Allen speaks the truth. On a bulge, you also want to position yourself to see your feet. When you get to where your chest is at the bulge (give or take), swing past the lip (so you don't fracture it off) but not at the full extent of your reach. Hang on this tool and get your feet a bit higher; hanging on a straight arm lets you see your feet (and makes you less likely to drop you toes). With feet reset a bit higher, sink the other tool over the lip close to maximum reach. Finally, hang hard out on both tools so that your butt is back and you are more or less squatting over your feet. Look down and kick your feet up until near the lip. Bring one foot up and stomp over the lip, then repeat with the other foot, converting your tools to a mantle grip as you go. Staggering tools with one closer to you and one farther away lets you move from a hanging grip to a mantle grip as you surmount the bulge. |
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When possible try to position you feet wider apart when pulling over bulges. This makes it alot easier to see your feet and keep weight on them |
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Dear Alan, Derek, and Kevin: These are all awesomely excellent ideas. I'm putting a calendar reminder to look at them again in Dec. and. Jan. I'm thinking specifically about a spot that was almost like a candlestick, round, so it was quite hard to get my feet out the sides. Also in another case, it was pretty chandeliered, so I kicked and and I kicked but I could not get a crampon stick. Still not quite sure what to do there, but anyway, Next time, on standard steep and bulge: * Engage those toes (will look up training for that). * Where possible keep the feet where I can see them. * Where possible keep the feet spread apart * Work the feet up by hanging on tools with ass-out, therefore back arched, not stretched out to I can't see my feet (my translation of what Derek said). Perhaps if I spent a long time on TR on an overhanging area I would become better at this. That's what we need indoor ice gyms for! ---- Peace and love, and picks in your shoulder blades (ice climber hug). -TPC |
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you have to be able to see your feet. sometimes that involves the deep squat and always involves the right angulation to orient the points into the ice. Very, very rarely you encounter a situation where you just have to use a knee. It only works if you move really quickly before it has a chance to slip off. just a quick bump to keep upward momentum.... done that perhaps 5 times in 40years of ice climbing... |
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Swing like you screw, kick like you poo. Do the second one. |
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Also, your front points on your crampons are often adjustable. You could try making them a little longer to protrude further from your boot. But yeah, that won't help much if you dont drop those heels |
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Drafting your pick holes can also help a great deal, I find that when I’m pulling a lip it helps to position both tools a little ways past the edge, then find an old pick hole and step a high foot into it. No kicking required, just dig the point in as you weight it, almost like pistol squatting on slab. Then proceed to mantle up on your tools and kick the other foot in. I can’t express how much drafting helped me progress my footwork, of course, you might already know about it, but it was a big shocker to me when I learned it was a thing. |
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in regards to skinny pillars, I find that generally, kicking less is better than kicking more. Also, I would suggest anything you can do to increase flexibility in your hips would be good. For myself, I am specifically working on hip and ankle flexibility because I found that on a skinny pillar, the way my feet need to be oriented would be uncomfortable on either my hips or ankles, depending on the situation. Maybe that’s not an issue for you, but it was for me, and uncomfortable is no good in this game. As regards to kicking less, I prefer to “smear” my crampon points and always climb as gentle as possible |
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Yeah just stick your butt out a little and angle your front points up (drop your heels) |
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So, I posted this after I had trouble, like I never had before, with my feet as soon as the going got steep. You all responded with thoroughly correct points (pun intended) about drop your heels, look at your feet, etc. I certainly *thought* I did that. Then, I ran across some new, untouched spare points and compared them to my current ones. Yikes!  My points just plain, straight-up had no points!!!!  I recommend that you keep a traced outline of your points, and if you suddenly feel like your feet are not sticking, it may not be that your sharpening technique is the problem, but rather, the lack of points! Stay safe and have a great time. And oh yes, I will drop my heels and look at my feet. I need every advantage. After getting my gear in order, I could still use plenty of improvement on technique. -TPC |
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if your front points look like that its almost inevitable that your secondary points are also toasted. Put those crampons on FB marketplace and buy new.. I do new crampons about every two seasons. I do NOt waste $$ on new front points. recently I have been running two pairs for different conditions so they are lasting longer but its the same drill. When the front point is worn down the whole crampon is also worn. |
Nick Goldsmith wrote: I don’t understand your math on this; new cramps are over $200 new, and front points are like $60 |
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How much is an open tib fib or if you solo a lot death.. i use all my points not just the front point. If the front points are dull and worn down so is the rest of the crampons. When I stand flat footed on top of a bulge i like my foot to stick like glue. Selling the old pair for 75 bucks gets you a new pair on close out or sale for 75 to 100.. I think my math is just fine. |
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I'll never disagree with someone's choice to spend more money/time/whatever to be safer, but I just want to mention that you can also sharpen your other points. Eventually they become too short to be useful though, so Nick's math might be the right call because once they reach the too short to be useful point they can't be resold as easily (or at all?). I only ice climb a dozen days a year or so (less this year since I broke my kneecap), but I think I've had good success just sharpening all points (and making a point to keep the points the same shape when sharpening them, even if that requires removing one of the front "teeth". |
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My original mentor fell 500+ ft while soloing on old crampons with points filed down too low... Right next to me... I can afford to buy new crampons every two years if I sell one pair. that always leaves me with two pairs that are in good to great shape. Ever notice how sometimes your foot actually gets stuck in the ice with new crampons? that Never happens with old crampons.... with new super sharp rigs you can be super delicate on the stuff that requires delicacy.. |
Thaddeus F Baringer wrote: Agree. I had a pair of old CAMP Ice Invaders that I sharpened every year for almost 2 decades, and saved many hundreds of $ over the years. They outlasted several pairs of boots. Eventually had to put them too rest. |
Nick Goldsmith wrote: That's both awful and enlightening to hear Nick. I'll keep your mentor in mind the next time I decide whether to file down points or buy a new pair. |
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To put it bluntly, Nick is weighing the cost of crampon failure of any kind, which can be catastrophic, with increasing likelihood based on the commitment of the route and position as follower, leader, or soloist. I tend to agree with his math. It's a small price to pay in the scheme of things, and one I also tend to apply to much of my equipment, especially things that are not or cannot be redundant. |
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This was the clincher for me .  |
