Width vs. Length Stretch in climbing shoes and "Street Shoe" sizing

Hello Fellow Climblings,

I recently picked up a pair of discount moccasyms from adads websites. I'm planning to use these as gym climbing shoes only. This has led me to some thoughts and questions on stretch and street shoe sizing that I think could be a valuable discussion.

I ordered my "street shoe size" which is 8 (sometimes 8.5 depending on brand) but when they came they are pretty tough to get on and a kind of painful in a way that makes me think the width of the shoe is too small for my feet. I got my feet measured at a shoe store in an aetrex machine and my dimensions are L 26.25cm x  W 10.65cm which they say is an average of 9 US M but i feel like I'm swimming in most 9s and have been wearing 8s for a long time and they are very comfortable and secure. In doing some research online, I also have found my toes are in a "Roman" shape.

My main question is, will the moccs stretch more widthwise than lengthwise? Side question, would you consider my "street shoe size" 8 because that's what I like to wear or 9 because that's what it is on paper?

If you don't have answers to my question, feel free to just post your experience with street shoe sizing and/or width/length stretch in climbing shoes.

Sincerely an overthinker,

Randall

8_UK = 9_US

Typically shoes don't really get longer. Depending on the material and/or lining they will stretch in width.

The moccs will stretch a lot so I wouldn't worry about it being slightly tight now. I can fit mine 2-2.5 smaller than my foot. Takes a bit to break in but even with a wider fore fit more similar to a roman shape I love em. Granted I'm sizing rather aggressively for bouldering. I do wear a larger size closer to foot size for crack climbing or longer climbs. Shoes I'll second don't really get longer just grow in volume. Mostly from width and above the toe box. Unlined leather in particular will stretch a lot. Where as lined or synthetic not nearly as much and doesn't tend to really get bigger. All of our feet are different shapes so not every shoe is for every foot and unfortunately it takes some time to sort out what you like/don't. I'd say especially since you are in the gym size em as "comfortably" snug as you can. You can take them off every climb while they break in, and in a gym setting walls tend to be steeper and having a tighter shoe to edge some on the smaller jibs would be helpful. 

At the end of the day though whatever you get will work, and as your foot gets used to being in a confined space and you sort out what about the fit you like/don't you can adjust sizing over time. Technique will take you way further than foot binding. Though if you like a little comfier shoe something a bit stiffer might be nice to help support your foot. Our feet need time to get stronger just like our fingers. Soft shoes should really be fit tighter (moccs, futura, drago etc...)  and stiffer shoes can be fit a little comfier without loosing edging support (muira, anasazi vcs, tc pro etc..)

As far as your street shoe size. Its a poor method of qualifying the size of your foot since every shoe is different and it doesn't take into consideration shape, with, etc... You know your foots measurment that is much more important. As you noted as well many folks fit their every day shoes different. As someone that has fit footwear generally I'd say most of us wear or should wear a street shoe a half size larger than what our foot measures.  If you are used to running shoes or wearing hiking footwear where you need extra space for foot swelling or toe space for descents this is probably where you're at. So go by the measurement not what you are used to wearing. Also remember that one foot is probably a little longer/shorter than other. I'd tend to fit street shoes to bigger foot but definitely fit climbing shoes to smaller foot. 

Good luck with the moccs they are great kicks. 

Mocs should be pretty tight in my limited experience. Once they stretch, there is no way to make them tighter, and they can’t be cinched down to fit smaller feet.

The most common shoe measuring device is called a Brannock device, which gives you a length (i.e. US 8) and a width (i.e D, EE/Wide). I think width is US thing though, because I don’t see euro sizes with widths. Typically your sneaker sizes end up being bigger than your Brannock size, especially if you have a wide foot in Brannock size terms, because you can’t go wider than D with most sneakers, you end going longer to get enough width(going up .5 length gives roughly one more width size of extra width); another for that sneakers need to accommodate the thick end of socks. For example, my Brannock size is 6EEE, but most of my life I wore US 8.5D Nikes and US 8D Addidas. But US 7.5EE sneakers fit closer to my foot shape. My Oxford dress shoes are US 6.5EE; 6EEE also fit, but they look less sleek.

Back to climbing shoes, La Sportiva is very close to Brannock size in my opinion, I wear Euro 39 (US 6.5+D) in four La Sportiva models, with slight variations in fits. But Evolv Shamans are specifically designed to be closer to your street shoe sizes, so those in US 8 end up being the same fit. So 1-2 down from street sizes are not universal either. Your best bet is to try a couple sizes in your range to determine the best fit.

We haven’t started talking about high vs low volume feet yet.

I am sure your Mocs will stretch and/or your feet will get used to the smaller shoes. If you are just starting, a good fit is probably no dead space in front of your big toe and your toes are not curled. 

Another anecdote: after taking a break from climbing for two years, I found that my old shoes were all way too tight when I first got back to it. I ended up getting a new pair half size bigger than my usual sizes. Six months of regular climbing later, all my old shoes are now comfortable, and my new shoes are too big.