Alpine rope set up. 30m 9.0mm + 35m 6.0mm tagline or 50m 9.0mm + 55m 6mm tag line or better?

Hello all, 

Been getting into alot more alpine climbing. Been going over various set ups to stay ultralight without compromising safety.  I currently have lots of sport climbing ropes (9.8mm in 70m/60m/35m(gym)). Hauling around the 70m 9.8mm has been a real pain. I mostly do simul climbing so the 70m just ends up being a big mess (w/kiwi coil) . Does any have suggestions on an UL set up? I know twins and halves are options, but I don't think I'm ready for the rope management. I was considering a 40m 8.9 mm+40m 6.0mm tagline just for rappels. Do you see any potential problems with this set up? Thanks!! 

why not a 70m, 7.1 or 7.3? Fold it in half, keeps you both closer, still leaves room for at least 1-2 pieces between the both of ya... 

(edelrid skimmer is my 7.1, beal gully is my 7.3 - gully is softer, twists less, edelrid is much stiffer but still a nice cord - though does twist easy).

Depends what your area is like. Last time I went out we used 70M 8.9mm and 60M 6mm. If you're gonna use a 30 and a 35 it's really not that much heavier to just do it on a folded or half-packed 70. 

Do you really need to be able to rap? Pretty much everything simulable (5.9 and below) I've done in the Sierra has a walk off. I just use a 40m 9.0mm single rope.

I have this alpine set up for mountaineering/ice climbing in the european alps YMMV for me there is not route I cannot do with this:

Beal Opera 30 meters
Beal Opera 50 meters
Beal Gully 50 meters
I also have an Edelrid Rapline III 50 meters for skiing, rappels and hauling

Hi--I think it really depends what you want to do.  Simulclimbing in snow gullies?  Will you be using rope capture devices like a tiblox or microtrax?  Traversing rock ridges?  Glacier crossing with crevasse danger?  Rappels?  And so on.  If you need to cross wet glaciers, or you are at all concerned about crevasse danger, for a team of two, 60 meters is the safe minimum, although some people will inevitably dispute that.  If you are going to be dragging the rock through/over rocks, then a doubled skinny rope or a mid-fat rope will be more appropriate.  If you are climbing steep vertical pitches, you will need a real dynamic rope probably a little over 9 mm.  And the same complexity applies to rap lines!  For example, do you want a slightly heaver rap line with some dynamic reserve?  Do you want a pure static tag line?  Etc.  What routes do you have in mind?  That might help people guide you.    

If you have two ropes they should be the same length and preferably same diameter. A thinner rope will move thre your belay device faster.

What do the typical rappels look like? If infrequent, relatively clean and not too far off vertical maybe consider a Beal Escaper?

70m Edelrid Rap Line doubled up for the simul? It can allegedly catch a decent fall with the dynamic core (static sheath will likely be destroyed) and you've got a bit of redundancy using it doubled, plus 35m raps.  

https://youtu.be/B-n_rfSsOyY

Mike Kawamoto wrote:

Hello all, 

 I know twins and halves are options, but I don't think I'm ready for the rope management.  I was considering a 40m 8.9 mm+40m 6.0mm tagline just for rappels. 

Get yourself a skinny twin/half rope and just treat them as twins. It's not complicated, belaying on the twins is the same as a single and you do have an option of 1/2 rope technique.

It was mentioned in the second post. Get a 7.skinny x 70m or 80m. No knot to deal with at rappels.

If you're truly going "ultralight," you're probably doing stuff that is more 5th class scrambling, with the occasional 5.5/5.6 move, no? Climbing *up* that sort of terrain is usually easier ropeless, and thus the rope will, for the most part, be in your pack. my 60m 7.3 takes 1/3 of the available space in a 16L pack, leaving plenty of room for shoes, water, trekking poles, etc. Sounds like exactly what you're looking for. 

Two small 30-35m piles of 7.3 cord is easily managed with some thoughtfulness, so double rope belay should be no problem. Not trying to be a d*** but, if it IS a problem, you may want to rethink your level of preparedness for true alpine climbing. Being honest and trying to keep you from putting yourself in a sh**y situation. good luck.

Wow! thank you for the replies. I love the 7mm option, just curious on how the belay would work on something like that for simul. All the options seem great actually. I really appreciate the time and response from everyone.

Mike Kawamoto wrote:

I love the 7mm option, just curious on how the belay would work on something like that for simul.

How would it be different than any other simul belay? Just use a belay device appropriate to the rope diameter that takes two strands. I like the Edelrid Microjul in that range. Obviously you can't use a grigri or most other auto-locking devices, but even if that's what you use now it should still be tied off. 

i normally use a gigajul, but often bring a dmm pivot for belaying w/ the 7.3mm. works just fine, even in guide mode (though it is wise to pay more attention to it when in guide mode, to ensure the strands don't bypass each other - I've yet to have that happen, fwiw.

edit as I see sam's response:  I would *not* try to "simul belay" w/ double stranded skinnies. Go full stretch method or just pitch it out. Honestly, for what you're doing, you're prob only going to be belaying a short section anyway. Don't complicate things.

Go over every climb you do and write down what rope setup you wish you had. Then buy the ones that you write the most. 

I like my 7.5mm 60m half/twin ropes. I can take one and climb/simul on it as a single half rope in easy terrain. I can use the same single half as a long glacier rope for a party of 3+. I can fold it on itself for harder routes and have 30m for half/twin technique on lead. And for ice or harder routes I can bring the pair of them. Each rope weighs about 5lb so it's pretty darn light. 

I also have a skinny half that I cut down to 30m to use as a glacier rope when it was nearing retirement. Very useful if the glacier crossing is all you're worried about. 

Thank you for all the great ideas. Decided to go with the Beal opera 8.5mm 70m for the triple rating. Still get 35m rappels with the ability to pitch out. Full stretch simul seems great with the twin set up as well. I'll invest in the Edelrid Gigajul! So many options, I really appreciate it.

Really like my 40 m ropes. Would not recommend 30 m or 35 m, too short in too many situations. Often times 40 m seems like a good compromise.