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Getting to 5.11a sport

Original Post
sandrock · · Colorado Springs, CO · Joined Jul 2013 · Points: 200

Hello all,

I've set a goal for myself to lead 5.11a sport this year, and I'm curious what the best approach for this is. Right now I can lead most 5.10a at Shelf, maybe having to one hang every now and then. I onsite-ed a few 10b's at the end of last season too. 

My question is should I do any structured training program? (I own the Rock Climbers Training Manual book). Or should I just stick to climbing a lot? Is 5.11 a grade that requires training, or would I be fine with just lots of time on the rock?

My local gym is a bouldering gym, so I've been noticing I'm weak in endurance. As well as general strength for steep overhangs and roof routes. 

Any guidance would be appreciated! 

Nathaniel F · · Modesto, CA · Joined Mar 2019 · Points: 5

Just climb for now. I don’t think there is any need to be too structured, just try to live healthily and continue to climb outside and push yourself. Do things indoors and outdoors that align with your vision of improvement, for example if you want more endurance do stuff that gets you pumped, and don’t waste time on things that will not help you. At the same time this doesn’t mean you should not do the things that you enjoy, even if they may not be as “beneficial” to your development. Staying healthy and motivated, and climbing/training consistently will get you pretty far.

Prav C · · Arvada, CO · Joined Sep 2019 · Points: 124

Climb a few softy 5.11a's to break the mental barrier. Ernest Stemmingway in CCC and Free Willy in BoCan are two easy ones. I don't think it requires any special training. I only boulder in the gym and my endurance is terrible, and I managed to send 5.11a within a few months of starting to lead climb outdoors.

sandrock · · Colorado Springs, CO · Joined Jul 2013 · Points: 200

Thanks for the insights. Is there any benefit to adding hangboarding into my routine at this point?

Matthew Massey · · South Charleston, WV · Joined Oct 2016 · Points: 5
sandrock wrote:

Thanks for the insights. Is there any benefit to adding hangboarding into my routine at this point?

It will make your fingers stronger, but you don't need to hangboard to send 11a sport. Just keep consistently climbing, and don't be afraid to take falls and try your hardest.

Also, most importantly, remember to have fun. Don't get too hyperfocused on a goal and remember that climbing should be enjoyable!

sandrock · · Colorado Springs, CO · Joined Jul 2013 · Points: 200

Thanks Matthew, I appreciate the advice. My fear of falling on lead really holds me back right now, I need to get more comfortable on the sharp end somehow.

Andrew Southworth · · MN · Joined Apr 2014 · Points: 289
sandrock wrote:

Thanks for the insights. Is there any benefit to adding hangboarding into my routine at this point?

Depends on how much you are able to get out climbing/to the gym and what other life responsibilities/time restrictions you have. If you are feeling that you are able to climb a few days a week both in the gym/outside I'd likely hold off, but if you are very busy with work/kids/etc. adding one easy hangboard in a week would probably be really helpful. 

Out of curiosity do you tend to push yourself when climbing or tend to get on things you know you will be able to do? 

phylp phylp · · Upland · Joined May 2015 · Points: 1,137
sandrock wrote:

I've set a goal for myself to lead 5.11a sport this year, and I'm curious what the best approach for this is. 

Or should I just stick to climbing a lot? Is 5.11 a grade that requires training, or would I be fine with just lots of time on the rock?

My local gym is a bouldering gym, so I've been noticing I'm weak in endurance. As well as general strength for steep overhangs and roof routes. 

I'm also a woman.  In my transition to 5.11 face climbing, slab and vertical face in general reflected just more time on real rock, overhanging sport required more upper body strength and that was obtained more in the lifting and climbing gym.

To expand - slab climbing came pretty naturally to me, I already had good balance and good flexibility, it required almost no upper body strength.  The increase in grade came in my body learning the feeling of balance and sticking to nothing.  It's mostly feet, balance, technique and mental training. Typically quite difficult to train in a gym setting.   With vertical edging/ techy routes at 5.11 and higher (actually at around 10c and higher), forearm endurance started to matter a lot.  I trained that by doing hours of vertical buildering. When you're hanging on a tiny crimp looking around and analyzing what the next move it, you need that hang-on strength.  If you don't have it, you can get panicky and loose focus. You can train forearm endurance at your outdoor climbing area by picking a crimpy route and up and down climbing laps on it until you get a great forearm pump.  With overhanging sport, I found crosstraining in a lifting gym helpful.  Lat pulldowns, seated row, etc.  A strength training program that targets the big muscle groups in the upper body.  Roofs, it's important to train abs if that's a weak point for you.  And then getting on the steepest routes you can find and build up that endurance.  While this is "time on the rock" it's not just doing one route after another, it's using the routes at your disposal to train the aspects you know are weak in a systematic way.

Have fun, Phyl

Tony Maxwell · · southern california/oregon · Joined May 2019 · Points: 66

I wouldn’t say hangboarding is necessary unless power is a major weakness. I’ve found lapping easier climbs over and over really increase the endurance. Starting to run up hill has also aided in my endurance. Once your endurance gets up 11- will feel wayyy easier and attainable. 

Rick Atherton · · Redmond, OR · Joined Feb 2017 · Points: 0
sandrock wrote:

Thanks Matthew, I appreciate the advice. My fear of falling on lead really holds me back right now, I need to get more comfortable on the sharp end somehow.

Check out Dave MacLeod's 9 Out of 10 Climber's Make the Same Mistakes. "Part 3 Fear of Falling: The Real Problem, Likely..." gives a systematic plan to dealing with falling fears.

Mark Hudon · · Reno, NV · Joined Jul 2009 · Points: 420

Climb every 10a in the park, then climb every 10b followed by every 10c and on to 10d. After all of that, you’ll confidently climb 5.11a.
i don’t see the point of throwing yourself at a grade until you are legitimately ready for it. 

Claudine Longet · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Sep 2020 · Points: 0

5.11 is where you have to start actually being athletic. Not being fat, specifically. And actually working towards climbing goals with training and getting out more. It's still not all that hard. In relation to downhill resort skiing, the basic black diamonds. 

That said, I am currently fat and cannot climb 5.11.

But I've been there many times in the past, and I'll get back. I've got my 30th revised interest in the sport going on.

wendy weiss · · boulder, co · Joined Mar 2006 · Points: 10

For me, gym climbing -- not bouldering -- made a huge difference in my strength, technique, and lead head. On a generously-bolted outdoor route I could tell myself it was just like a gym route.

Which brings up the question of whether you're presently TRing or seconding 11s. If so, it may be just a question of getting more comfortable leading at that level. You could try leading something you've already TRed. If you can't follow 11a, then you need to work on your strength and skills as well as your confidence. (note about me: I was never a consistent 11 leader, but followed quite a few and lead some, mostly 11a's. Gym climbing was essential and pretty much my only training.)  

Matthew Massey · · South Charleston, WV · Joined Oct 2016 · Points: 5
sandrock wrote:

Thanks Matthew, I appreciate the advice. My fear of falling on lead really holds me back right now, I need to get more comfortable on the sharp end somehow.

The only way to get more comfortable is to do it more often! Consistency is key for mentality. It took me a few years to send my first 11a which I realize is "slow" for a lot of newcomers, and I realized I could've done it way sooner because I was definitely strong enough (I was sending V4 outside by that point, which is way harder than 5.11a.) I just didn't want to try that hard mentally, once I realized falling is (mostly) safe my climbing became way more enjoyable and relaxing which lead to my ability growing much more naturally. People emphasize training, when in reality for most people the physical aspect isn't the issue.

Topher Dabrowski · · Portland, OR · Joined Jul 2014 · Points: 2,389

For me, the one key to being comfortable falling is to find a belayer you can trust. Too many people just stand there and hold a rope with a GriGri. Then they start pulling the rope tight when you yell "watch me" which is not confidence inspiring if you want to push your grades. Talk with your partner about dynamic catching, how to avoid obstacles in the fall path, timing for feeding and removing slack from the system during clips and dynamic movement and specifically how to add rope into the system to give a soft catch during a fall ie. timing a jump or more tricky, letting the rope run. Dead weight belayers provide a hard uncomfortable stop to a fall and at worse break ankles, avoid them or get them trained if they are open to learning. I hardly ever see climbers practicing dynamic belay techniques.

You too can improve your odds by picking routes that are safe to fall on when pushing your grade. Also work with a partner that supports your goal, shares your vision for safety and encourages your effort.

Go for it, make a plan and keep your health and safety as priority 1.

  

Old lady H · · Boise, ID · Joined Aug 2015 · Points: 1,375

Climb with super trusted partners, climb with people who are better/stronger climbers, maybe consider a style that really suits you, climb with people who are super stoked to see you also stoked....lots of stuff besides just the physical.

Only a year or so into climbing, my young and newish to climbing partner got invited to the Fins, by people who climbed 12s, routinely. He described following an 11 "by some miracle", lol! But really? It was a route that fit his body very well (he is young, lean, and lanky), and a style he found easy, and enjoys, naturally (balancey/crimpy). And, the friends were stoked to have the bright eyed kid along and see him so stoked.

I would also add? 

Consider climbing stuff in total ignorance of the grade, so long as it looks sorta doable. I bouldered a V1, flailed a bunch but got bolt to bolt on a 10something, and led a 5.8 pretty much onsite (only my 3rd or 4th lead)...very early on, as a maybe 5.7 at best noob. I didn't know what I was doing, but didn't know I "couldn't do it" either, lol!

Really, I think the belayer is a crucial component of this, and it becomes a true partnership when both of you are comfortable enough to try hard....and the partner cares. Hang on to those people!!!

:-)

James M · · Colorado Springs, CO · Joined Sep 2017 · Points: 75

Climb climb climb! And really just pay attention to your body, try not to get hurt. Flesh Tuxedo is a good, easier than expected 11 at shelf, but favors those who are slightly better at overhanging climbing.

I feel like the 11's is where you start pulling harder on smaller holds and are maybe newer/ish to climbing to the point that your tendon's have not caught up to muscular strength. Every time you go outside or to the gym try an 11-, 11, or 11+.

Right now I am working my way up to 11's on trad and getting spanked pretty hard. 

Mark Hudon is a legend and a hero, and while I agree there is too much emphasis on just getting to a grade I see no reason not to be inspired by a line that it out of your league and going for it. Somehow I hadn't even climbed that many 11's and OS an 11 b/c. Just got lucky, and I want to climb 11 trad because there are lines on my to-do that just look exciting and fun. 

So to counter Mark's point if something looks like an inspiring line go for it! You want to be inspired by it on your 6th or 7th attempt. I have no business on 5.13 but hey it is permadrawed so why not see how far I can go? (not far) 

Not being afraid of falling helps a lot. Many 11's will have sections where you don't have to crank on a hold but you have to trust that you will stay glued to the wall and flow through delicate sections.  

Final point in my rant, pay lots of attention to your clipping, where you clip, how you clip. Don't clip from the insecure crimp that pumps you out (and possibly increases your fall if you blow while clipping overhead) when you could make one more move to that sweet sweet jug and clip by your waist. And once you are at the jug relax, don't clip right away. You aren't going anywhere so breathe a second, clip, breathe, visualize the next few moves and go.

James M · · Colorado Springs, CO · Joined Sep 2017 · Points: 75

On second thought I just looked at your tick-list and you are ready, just go on the sharp end more!

Matthew Jaggers · · Red River Gorge · Joined Sep 2017 · Points: 695

Top Rope or bolt to bolt some 12's and you'll realize 11's aren't that scary at all.

Mark Hudon · · Reno, NV · Joined Jul 2009 · Points: 420

James McGall’s point is a good one.
Build your base, but certainly go throw yourself at an inspiring line every now and then.

There was a guy at Smith Rocks years ago who could barely do the 5.11 a and b warm up routes who was also “working” Rude Boys, 5.13 b/c. I could ramble the warm ups but I felt I was nowhere near Rude Boys. I worked up the grades and a few years later redpointed Rude Boys quite quickly. I think that other guy quit climbing. 

Trevor Taylor · · Seattle, WA · Joined Nov 2020 · Points: 0
Mark Hudon wrote:

James McGall’s point is a good one.
Build your base, but certainly go throw yourself at an inspiring line every now and then.

There was a guy at Smith Rocks years ago who could barely do the 5.11 a and b warm up routes who was also “working” Rude Boys, 5.13 b/c. I could ramble the warm ups but I felt I was nowhere near Rude Boys. I worked up the grades and a few years later redpointed Rude Boys quite quickly. I think that other guy quit climbing. 

What about that guy who worked up the grades bolted a 14 and practically quit climbing but came back. Sass aside op you will have more fun if your sending stuff, fixating on one route isn’t healthy. Do some 10bs, then 10c, then 10d then 11a.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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