How tight should leather slip ons be out of the box?

Been searching for a good leather slip on and after trying a few out that didn’t fit my foot (five ten moccs and unparallel up mocc) I think I finally found one that fits my foot shape well. I ended up with the Evolv Raves and they fit my foot perfectly. However this is my first slip on and actually first non synthetic shoe so I’m wondering about sizing. Right now, I got my street shoe size and they fit perfectly out of the box. No real pain, very comfortable and it actually feels like my foot is almost flat (though when I touch the top of my toes in the shoe they are definitely curled a little bit). When I stand on my very tip toes my heel moves in the shoe ever so slightly, causing a slight air pocket that farts when I step back down. There is a tiny bit of extra volume in the toe box that allows me to curl my toes slightly inside the shoe. Do you guys think I should I get a half size down? They fit perfect now but if they stretch a bunch I think they’ll be too big. There is a good amount of rubber surrounding the whole toe box so I’m not sure how much that will limit stretching. How tight out of the box do you all size leather slip ons? I want these to be my more comfortable pairs of shoes, but I also still want to be able to edge well with them and not be sloppy. Any insight is greatly appreciated. 

Should be pretty tight out of the box, unless you want to crack climb with them. A half size down from what you have now sounds like a good idea. They will stretch a good bit, and the rubber will form slightly to your toes. Simple shoes like slippers definitely gain performance with a bit of extra downsizing.

That said, it really depends on how the shoe is constructed, your foot shape, climbing style, etc.

My Up Moccs were quite difficult to get on initially, but broke in fairly quickly and became very comfortable without getting too sloppy.

Jason Zevenbergen wrote:

Should be pretty tight out of the box, unless you want to crack climb with them. A half size down from what you have now sounds like a good idea. They will stretch a good bit, and the rubber will form slightly to your toes. Simple shoes like slippers definitely gain performance with a bit of extra downsizing.

That said, it really depends on how the shoe is constructed, your foot shape, climbing style, etc.

My Up Moccs were quite difficult to get on initially, but broke in fairly quickly and became very comfortable without getting too sloppy.

Thanks for the response. I am not planning on using these primarily for crack, so I think i'd rather have them a bit more on the performance side for edging etc. They are already fairly tight as is out of the box, though not painful, but if they stretch at all I think they'd be too sloppy and bit a loose. They are pretty easy to get on and off as is, so I am going to try a half size down and see how they feel. Thanks for the insight and suggestion.

Glad I could help, I hope they work well for you!

Assuming you are talking a 1/2 European size, that seems like you should at least try them on. After all, there are no laces to take up slack as they stretch, and unlined leather and elastic will stretch a lot. 

Because of this, I think it is hard to have slippers be both your ‘comfortable shoes’ and offer a ‘performance fit for edging’. Of course, they do offer comfort in being easy to pull on and off. So in that respect a moderately tight fit can work well for bouldering and short roped climbs.

Tjaard Breeuwer wrote:

Assuming you are talking a 1/2 European size, that seems like you should at least try them on. After all, there are no laces to take up slack as they stretch, and unlined leather and elastic will stretch a lot. 

Because of this, I think it is hard to have slippers be both your ‘comfortable shoes’ and offer a ‘performance fit for edging’. Of course, they do offer comfort in being easy to pull on and off. So in that respect a moderately tight fit can work well for bouldering and short roped climbs.

Thanks for the response. I ended up just getting the half size down (us size 7.5 compared to 8 before) and they are shockingly smaller. Pretty disappointed. While the 8’s are very comfortable and super easy to get on (though a very tiny bit of foot movement which is why I wanted to size down), the 7.5’s are really hard to get on and possibly the most painfully tight shoes I’ve put on. Can’t believe there’s such a huge difference between half sizes, I’ve never experienced this before. Not sure if there are sizing inconsistencies with evolv and maybe I just got unlucky and got either a 7.5 that’s smaller than normal, or a 8 that’s larger than normal. Do you think I should just keep the larger size? With the 7.5’s, I can feel my blood circulation being cut off, and it’s highly painful to stand on my tip toes to the point of where as soon as I stand on them my foot kind of goes numb.

I'd keep the smaller ones. All my leather slippers have ended up quite comfortable despite being painfully small initially. All the ones which were initially as comfortable as the larger one you describe have ended up unwearable. Unfortunately sizing inconsistencies occur - I have a pair of LS Cobras in 37 which are substantially larger than other pairs in 37.5. You just got a monday morining pair of shoes.

Slippers are for comfort more than performance. Would keep the larger one or get another 8 to compare. 

Pino Pepino wrote:

I'd keep the smaller ones. All my leather slippers have ended up quite comfortable despite being painfully small initially. All the ones which were initially as comfortable as the larger one you describe have ended up unwearable. Unfortunately sizing inconsistencies occur - I have a pair of LS Cobras in 37 which are substantially larger than other pairs in 37.5. You just got a monday morining pair of shoes.

Thank you for the insight. I was hoping that wouldn’t be the case because the smaller ones are extremely painful. On a scale of 1 to 10 how bad would you say your small slip ons initially hurt? Do you think it’s worth just ordering one more of each and size and seeing if I get one that fits better? 

aclayden wrote:

Slippers are for comfort more than performance. Would keep the larger one or get another 8 to compare. 

Yeah that’s why I’m torn, I want these to be comfortable. But at the same time if they get too large and sloppy they’ll be useless to me. I may just order both another 7.5 and 8 to compare since I’m not sure which one (if any) are off in the sizing. Thanks 

You could try wearing them in the shower or using a shoe stretch spray to speed the break-in process.

Jason Zevenbergen wrote:

You could try wearing them in the shower or using a shoe stretch spray to speed the break-in process.

Do you think even the toe box area with all the rubber will adequately stretch? Also in this photo, does the difference in sizes look like a normal half size difference? To me it looks and feels like at least a full size difference, and I feel like one of them may be pretty off and I may just order two more and compare them to see if I get one that’s inbetween these two. Could be wrong though and these are just their correct sizes. Thanks again for the suggestion 

Ben E, put on your slippers and soak them in a wash tub or your bathtub, then wear them around for an hour or as long as you can/want. Finally lightly pack them with newspaper to speed the drying. 

The length difference looks greater than 1/2 size.
I'm under the impression that leather only stretches a lot when you try to fit a shoe at least 1 size smaller than your feet. Correct me if I'm wrong.

I'd say if the Evolvs are as soft as the moccs, they suck at edging.

Ben E wrote:

Thank you for the insight. I was hoping that wouldn’t be the case because the smaller ones are extremely painful. On a scale of 1 to 10 how bad would you say your small slip ons initially hurt? Do you think it’s worth just ordering one more of each and size and seeing if I get one that fits better? 

It's more a matter of getting into the shoes rather than bearing the pain for me. Impressions of pain differ from person to person and I seem to be somewhat more resistant to it than others. They are definitely painful over the first few sessions though.

Old thread, but I’m currently having this same dilemma… @Ben E what size did you go with? And how much do you think the raves stretched? Both in terms of volume and the leather, and rubber toe box? Much appreciated if anyone sees this 

Not too tight or you'll develop toe syndrome. Gone are the dumbass days of the 80s & 90s and the nasty calluses I developed on the big toes due to excessive downsizing of the moccs.

As for your shoes, check the bottom of this page:

https://www.oliunid.com/eu/evolv-rave-climbing-shoes.html

Depending of what level of climber you are.

NEVER DOWNSIZE. "Buy a shoe too small for your foot so it will stretch" = Gymbie myth. Take it from me who followed this logic for years in which i developed permanent toe injuries. Buy a snug fitting shoe that rests against the tips of your toes. If your toes are being crunched or curled in the new shoe then you are asking for a permanent injury.

An extremely tight fitting shoe will not make a difference for 95% of climbers - you simply aren't held back by that piece of your climbing game. 

I have very sweaty feet, so my break in and blow out cycle is pretty short, but my rule of thumb on leather slip ons is “As tight as I can get on my foot without plastic”

I have over 4 pairs of the Evolve Raves and love them to death! For myself, sizing down a half size from my 9.5 street shoe give me a really snug fit, toes slightly curled, after a while my toes begin to flatten out just a bit and they get supper comfortable but still remain really snug. I think it would be pretty painful to go down a full size in them.

Jonny Hof wrote:

Old thread, but I’m currently having this same dilemma… @Ben E what size did you go with? And how much do you think the raves stretched? Both in terms of volume and the leather, and rubber toe box? Much appreciated if anyone sees this 

I went with the 8, but after about a year I actually ended up getting another pair in 8.5 and they are comfortable and perform just as well for what I use them for (gym). They def can stretch a bit and shape to your foot well after a bit of time. Depends on what you’ll be using them for but I’d recommend just getting a pair that fits well with maybe just slight toe curl. No need to go super tight.