Practice lead falls indoors first, then go outside? Or go straight outside?

I've been TRing outdoors for 2 months and looking to start lead climbing. I've done a few follows already on sport and trad. So I feel ready now to start lead climbing!

The biggest barrier for me would be taking lead falls. Would it be best to start lead climbing and practice falling in the gym first, then transition outdoors? Or go straight outdoors? 

90% of time I climb outdoors, but understand it could be safer to start in the gym. On the other hand, I assume that lead falls outside are much different than lead falls in the gym. 

I think practicing falling to get used to the feeling is best done on anything overhanging. Indoor vs outdoor makes little difference. In general though its easier to find a good overhanging section indoors. I would start with some small falls (at bolt/gear level, or only a couple feet above) and work into some bigger falls (10ft above bolt/gear level). In general getting bigger falls at the gym is harder because they will kick you out for skipping clips. 

To echo what Levi said, it's just gotta be somewhere safe to fall, ideally overhanging. The difference of the gym vs outdoors is indoors the bolts are really close and you can be almost guaranteed safety. It's also much easier to find overhanging 5.8 jugs indoors so you can focus on leading, clipping and falling rather than climbing. 

I dunno, I personally don't find that my experiences in gyms match up with my experiences climbing outside.  I personally do not want to fall on sub-5.10 climbing outside, just because usually there are a lot of things I might hit on the way down.  I can't comment on a gym.

My recommendation is to find folks to climb with who seem to know what they are doing-- I am assuming you've been going out to climb outside with those folks?

Go with them, lead stuff you've TR'd.  Read as much as you can, watch a bunch of youtube videos, whatever makes you feel like you're informed about what you're doing.  Always make sure that you understand what the plan is for the anchor and how you're gonna get back down.

But other than that, I don't think I'd worry about falling.

Don't fall off, and don't worry about falling off.  Get used to clipping bolts, how the anchor works, and the other technical stuff.  When you start to climb harder stuff where falling is more likely and also probably safer, then worry about the mechanics of falling.

John Reeve wrote:

I dunno, I personally don't find that my experiences in gyms match up with my experiences climbing outside.  I personally do not want to fall on sub-5.10 climbing outside, just because usually there are a lot of things I might hit on the way down.  I can't comment on a gym.

My recommendation is to find folks to climb with who seem to know what they are doing-- I am assuming you've been going out to climb outside with those folks?

Go with them, lead stuff you've TR'd.  Read as much as you can, watch a bunch of youtube videos, whatever makes you feel like you're informed about what you're doing.  Always make sure that you understand what the plan is for the anchor and how you're gonna get back down.

But other than that, I don't think I'd worry about falling.

Don't fall off, and don't worry about falling off.  Get used to clipping bolts, how the anchor works, and the other technical stuff.  When you start to climb harder stuff where falling is more likely and also probably safer, then worry about the mechanics of falling.

If you never practice falling you will not know what to do when you inevitably do fall and are more likely to end up hurt because of it. If you never intend to push grades then never falling can be a viable option, but I would rather know proper technique for taking a whipper and minimizing impact. Learning on overhangs is the best option to minimize risk when learning to fall. There are plenty of climbs with large overhangs in the sub 5.10 range depending where you have outdoor climbing available. 

Before gyms practice falls were taught with a top rope set up to ensure no ground falls, or simply baiting with some slack in the rope.We also used to say “the leader doesn’t fall” and put in lots of pro if you can, or when you can. We also kept track of the number of falls so we’d retire the rope if we were getting to the recommended max number of falls.

It usually boiled down to don’t have the rope behind your leg, wear a helmet, and try to not fall on a slab or low angle pitch. Rationale for practicing falling is hard for me to understand since there is not a lot to be managed during a fall.

During 50 years of climbing I’ve had a few falls, so I am curious about lessons to be learned in practice for the leader. Belayer I get since I really trusted my partner.

David Hutchinson wrote: Rationale for practicing falling is hard for me to understand since there is not a lot to be managed during a fall

Generally in sport climbing it should be safe to take falls. Many of us still have psychological barriers to attempting low percentage moves above the bolt/gear and can have difficulty finishing a climb due to fear of falling. It is a common recommendation to take practice falls in order to learn to trust the systems/gear and be able to push through when necessary.

Old school trad: “if you’re flying, you’re dying.”(Leader must not fall)

Sport climbing: “if you’re not flying, you’re not trying.”

I appreciate your clarification... but when I was leading using nuts(a peck) for the first time on a 5.10 in the Tetons and my partner asked “is that good?” I answered I hope so! Dying was not an option then either.
I do recall the words of a partner “remember, it’s all for fun.” So be safe is the watchword.
And make sure you’re gear is good. I get sport climbing having started clipping quarter inch bolts and climbing Snake Dike in 1971. Putting in pins, transitioning to nuts, adopting cams all innovations to preserve climbs and climbers.

Understanding the mental aspect of climbing and understanding what it is you hope to achieve through climbing can guide your decisions as you engage with the sport.

Scott Biegert wrote:

Make sure you have an experiences belayer and ask the simple question "Have you ever caught a lead fall ?" You do not want to be learning to take a lead fall as your partner is learning to catch a lead fall. From experience,  you do not want to assume they have all skills required to do it safely.  

I think this is a good observation... but holy hell I wouldn't want to be learning any of these skills with folks where that's an active question. :D

To restate something I think I left understated earlier: find folks to climb with who do this stuff, and go with them.  Ask them what they think, and if it sounds reasonable, take their advice.  

Folks on the forum aren't gonna be there when you're deciding if you're okay trying to clip a second bolt where you might hit the ground if you're feeling shaky.

How about climb well within your ability so that you don’t fall until you’re totally comfortable with leading. I’d even promote mock leading outside before getting on the sharp end. That‘s the safest way to “figure it all out” even if you’ve led in a gym.

Hopefully you’ll do this at a sport crag and not on gear! There’s also some pretty good advice in some of the answers you’ve gotten. 

The idea that you need to practice lead falls before your first ever lead is a relatively recent product of gym climbing, where you need to take a lead fall as part of your lead test.

Back when I started climbing, I didn’t have a gym where I could practice taking a lead fall. My first-ever lead was outside. And my first-ever lead fall (unplanned/unexpected) was also outside. And not on my first day of leading.  

There is a large variation in people’s abilities and coordination. Some people are naturally well-coordinated, or have previously participated in sports where they learned to fall properly. Others  need a lot of intentional practice to learn the “falling like a cat” skill. Without knowing you, it’s hard to say where you are. But you can learn/test all of these things on toprope, initially. Just couple feet of slack would be enough, to start, to get the feel for the falling, and softly landing/cushioning the swing into the wall with your legs. There’s no reason you couldn’t practice that outside.

When you start leading, start on routes well within your limits. Sounds like you have more experienced partners—that, more than anything, is a recipe for success: a belayer who knows what they are going, with a lot of fall-catching experience. There was a good description above of starting with smaller falls, your more experienced friends would probably suggest the same. And you don’t need the wall to be as overhanging as you might think. Just a few degrees would be plenty. 

Nate A wrote:

Generally in sport climbing it should be safe to take falls. 

Sport climbing: “if you’re not flying, you’re not trying.”

That’s not quite true in the easier grades. Until you get well into the mid 5.10s, most routes, even if they are decently closely bolted, have you sliding down a slab, hitting a ledge, or swinging into a slab below a roof if you come off well above the last bolt.

Completely clean overhanging routes outside are almost always 5.11 or harder. The few overhanging jug fests in the 5.9 range I have climbed all had some kind feature shaped like a 7, with a lower angle section above or below the overhang.

For this reason I would recommend taking a lead climbing class indoor. The fall practice may or may not be usefull, but the practice belaying a falling leader is both valuable, and hard to get outside(for the reasons I mentioned above).

It is always easier to learn something new when you are not scared or having to focus on many different things. The gym provides that safe, simple environment to learn the new skill, then you go out into the real world to apply it.

When I first started climbing, I didn't even spend any hours destroying small stoppers or cams while practice aiding or real aiding, or just trying to rip them out of cracks at all angles. I simply climbed up on my house roof and jumped off, landing on my side. Didn't want to twist my ankle! I made sure to have my head bounce and have my rack positioned so I'd land on it, in order to simulate a real fall. It was exciting. The first two times I barely got hurt, just knocked the wind out. I don't remember the third time. I knew then, I was ready to lead the gnar.

Probably best to start indoors with lead, particularly a lead class that teaches you the basics. Outside has a few extra variables, while indoors you can just focus on the climbing and clipping.

Once outside, you should be sure to know how to bail, rappel, setup an anchor, clean gear off a route, among handling other factors from weather to loose rock.

Falling can also be a bit different outside, particularly on vertical to less than vertical routes due to potentially cheese grating down the side, shelves you could land on, etc.

I started leading outside with others who had little to no experience leading, but we also started small and made sure that everyone knew what they were doing before hitting longer and harder routes. So, you can just jump right into it if you really want, but definitely watch some guides online and practice the core principles at home before going out at least.

Probably just best to practice core skills under more ideal circumstances before adding on other variables.

Lena chita wrote:

The idea that you need to practice lead falls before your first ever lead is a relatively recent product of gym climbing, where you need to take a lead fall as part of your lead test.

Back when I started climbing, I didn’t have a gym where I could practice taking a lead fall. My first-ever lead was outside. And my first-ever lead fall (unplanned/unexpected) was also outside. And not on my first day of leading.  

There is a large variation in people’s abilities and coordination. Some people are naturally well-coordinated, or have previously participated in sports where they learned to fall properly. Others  need a lot of intentional practice to learn the “falling like a cat” skill. Without knowing you, it’s hard to say where you are. But you can learn/test all of these things on toprope, initially. Just couple feet of slack would be enough, to start, to get the feel for the falling, and softly landing/cushioning the swing into the wall with your legs. There’s no reason you couldn’t practice that outside.

When you start leading, start on routes well within your limits. Sounds like you have more experienced partners—that, more than anything, is a recipe for success: a belayer who knows what they are going, with a lot of fall-catching experience. There was a good description above of starting with smaller falls, your more experienced friends would probably suggest the same. And you don’t need the wall to be as overhanging as you might think. Just a few degrees would be plenty. 

This is really sound advice.

IMO, the most significant “practice” for lead falling is not the act of falling itself.  It is the assessment of the route as to where it is safe to fall and where it isn’t. When your are on top rope, start trying to make those assessments from bolt to bolt. Then start leading well within your limits and build a comfort in that assessment. You can then safely push yourself to a point where you will eventually take a lead fall, but safely.

In all honestly, I don’t see the value in lead climbing in the gym because it removes the assessment element. 

Wenmar B wrote:

"The biggest barrier for me would be taking lead falls." 

“Forget the self and you will fear nothing, in whatever level or awareness you find yourself to be.”
― Carlos Castaneda, The Active Side of Infinity

Practicing falling would be effort misplaced.
Instead, focus on your climbing. With experience your focus will be on each movement, balance, staying relaxed; a meditation.
Lead what you are comfortable leading, follow when you are unsure, until you are confident in your ability to recognize the path and flow of each on-sight movement.
Falls come naturally. In reality you'll have so much adrenaline pumping that by the time you have time to think about it you will be back where you were before the fall.
Rather than focusing on struggles with "the id", learn to accept the "Wu Wei".

gso Orton wrote:

“Forget the self and you will fear nothing, in whatever level or awareness you find yourself to be.”
― Carlos Castaneda, The Active Side of Infinity

Practicing falling would be effort misplaced.
Your effort should be focused on your climbing. With experience your focus will be on each movement, balance, staying relaxed; a meditation.
Lead what you are comfortable leading, follow when you are unsure, until you are confident in your ability to recognize the path and flow of each on-sight movement.
Falls come naturally. In reality you'll have so much adrenaline pumping that by the time you have time to think about it you will be back where you were before the fall.
Don't focus on the struggles of "the id", instead learn to focus on the Wu Wei.

Works for some, for others (like myself) this is terrible advice. Exposure therapy is the only thing that has worked for me.

Agreed with Connor. When I started lead climbing I was terrified of falling, so if someone gave me that meditation advice it wouldn't work and make me think they're being a dick. What I needed what progressive exposure therapy to intuitively prove to myself that I can control the experience.

EDIT: not calling you out, just saying what my reaction may have been to advice that's tantamount to "ayy, don't worry bout it" 

Kinda goes to show that everybody’s challenge is a little different. I wish my challenge in sport was the fear of falling rather than my sheer lack of grace   

Chris C wrote:

Kinda goes to show that everybody’s challenge is a little different. I wish my challenge in sport was the fear of falling rather than my sheer lack of grace   

Trust me man, I wish I just had weak fingers or something. Much easier to train strength than try hard or fear haha

Connor Dobson wrote:

"for others (like myself)"

Yes, struggles with "the id"?

Knowledge without Wisdom?