Sleeping on snow

Anyone sleeping on snow with just a Z lite thermarest, or any other kind of closed cell foam pad? How is it? I popped my air mat, wondering if i can get away with just foam for a bit, but have never tried it on snow.

I would love to hear any tricks you have for staying warmer as well! Or the details of your bivy set up for alpine climbing / sleeping on snow

I’ve slept many of nights on just a foam pad. It works, but sure isn’t as comfortable. Now I limit it to when I’m try to go really lite. 

climbing coastie wrote:

I’ve slept many of nights on just a foam pad. It works, but sure isn’t as comfortable. Now I limit it to when I’m try to go really lite. 

Were you uncomfortable because it did not insulate your from the snow enough? Or just because its thin / not cushy? Thanks

Also did it a few times with only a z lite.
as the other person said: it’s doable but you will have a really bad night for sure. Mostly because poor insulation.
my prefered choice is still go take a z lite but pair it with a 3/4 inflatable thermarest that you keep folded against your back.
for me the added comfort is worth the added weight

Fabien M wrote:

Also did it a few times with only a z lite.
as the other person said: it’s doable but you will have a really bad night for sure. Mostly because poor insulation.
my prefered choice is still go take a z lite but pair it with a 3/4 inflatable thermarest that you keep folded against your back.
for me the added comfort is worth the added weight

Thank you!

The few times I've slept on snow on a Z-Lite, I've either doubled it up with another foam pad or I've frozen my ass off (sometimes both, depending on how cold it was). If you're saving for a new air mat, Sea to Summit inflatables seem to be more dependable than most. Their Ether Light insulated pads offer a really good warmth to weight ratio.

Ask the Russians. Real men just use their rope. 

Number of times on a therma ridge, which is a bit bigger maybe than the zlite (and slightly better insulation as it doesn't have the folds, which do lower insulation). What I find is the biggest difference vs inflatable mat is that the foam adapts more to all the wrinkles that invariably form in the snow. I have a harder time avoiding pressure spots later in the night from that. Sure can shift position but usually that only results in another pressure point. Can be remedied somewhat from better prep of the underlying snow if you can.

I also observed that it seems to produce more humidity, between the foam pad & the bottom of the tent. Logical as its insulation value is lower, thus melting more snow. If doing that for a number of days, it does become harder to manage stuff getting moist.

Foam is the way to go.  Z-rest foam should be fine.  I use the blue rolled up stuff with an insulated air mattress.  Very comfortable.

ryan Smith wrote:

Were you uncomfortable because it did not insulate your from the snow enough? Or just because its thin / not cushy? Thanks

Too thin and not comfortable. I’ve found that it was warm enough, but barely. 

Another confirming data point:  I've done it with just a z-lite and am fine for the first few hours but eventually can start feeling the cold through the pad. 

Unless I'm planning on waking up at like 3am, I take the z-lite plus a 3/4 neo-air. Much warmer and able to sleep through the night. 

Thanks for all the insight, i just ordered a nee air pad, NeoAir Xlite, only 8oz!

ECD H wrote:

I use a Nemo Zor inside a sleeve of foam and reflective bubble sheet, sleeping on ice, rock & snow down to around -5f probably 30 nights a year. The Zor isn't that insulating in itself (R-2.5 maybe), but inflates FAST (4-5 breaths so less time standing around in the wind or in cramped bivys blowing up an Xtherm) and packs the size of a nalgene. The foam/bubble makes part of the frame in my pack and takes care of the insulation real well, debatable if the bubble stuff's reflectivity does much, but certainly light, thin and tough. The whole show is 3/4 length, empty pack goes under feet, enough redundancy if some part fails. I usually use 2 sleeping bags, outer being synthetic, bivy bag if it's warmer than 20f. Have done this for about 15 years now, including lots of time at altitude inc some 8000m peaks. Have seen a lot of other systems fail

Much depends how you climb. Alpine bivys on routes tend to be chopped in the dark, there's little laying about or room to do anything other than get rest. Fucking about with a big cushy mat in the wind and dark is something to avoid; chop a spot, get in your bag, get the stove going.

Thank you! This is 5 star info

I use a neoair xtherm. I don't think there's any substitute for fast and light multiday climbs, but I'd love to know what all the hardmen are doing with those evazote pads I see strapped to their backs in the photos, because the xtherm pads suck. They fail for seemingly no reason at all and start to slowly leak air. These slow leaks are impossible to find, and trying to hold a buoyant pad underwater in a bathtub that's typically smaller than the pad sucks. Treat it gently, use it sparingly and be prepared to replace it sooner than you'd like regardless. 30 nights out might not be an exaggeration.

Bogdan Petre wrote:

I use a neoair xtherm. I don't think there's any substitute for fast and light multiday climbs, but I'd love to know what all the hardmen are doing with those evazote pads I see strapped to their backs in the photos, because the xtherm pads suck. They fail for seemingly no reason at all and start to slowly leak air. These slow leaks are impossible to find, and trying to hold a buoyant pad underwater in a bathtub that's typically smaller than the pad sucks. Treat it gently, use it sparingly and be prepared to replace it sooner than you'd like regardless. 30 nights out might not be an exaggeration.

Instead of trying to hold it underwater use a spray bottle with a water/dish soap mix. 

In my experience in the Scottish winters, so pretty harsh but not next level harsh, a good quality closed cell foam is king. No fear of a crampon or other cock up getting you into serious trouble. If weight allows I have also carried a light 3/4 self inflating to go on top for added comfort.

No experience of z-rest but I've always been happy with multimat in the UK they do some prettry serious cold conditions foam mats.

http://www.multimat.uk.com/store/t/range/expedition

climbing coastie wrote:

Instead of trying to hold it underwater use a spray bottle with a water/dish soap mix. 

ya, but if you see no bubbles while holding it under water (much of a pain as it is, it's possible), there's no way the soap test will work. You're stuck with the water test for the slow leaks, and that's if you're lucky.

Bogdan Petre wrote:

ya, but if you see no bubbles while holding it under water (much of a pain as it is, it's possible), there's no way the soap test will work. You're stuck with the water test for the slow leaks, and that's if you're lucky.

To each their own, I’ve had better luck with the soap spray test. 

Neil B wrote: No fear of a crampon or other cock up.

http://www.multimat.uk.com/store/t/range/expedition

I am gonna re-assert this link.  

Neil B wrote:

In my experience in the Scottish winters, so pretty harsh but not next level harsh, a good quality closed cell foam is king. No fear of a crampon or other cock up getting you into serious trouble. If weight allows I have also carried a light 3/4 self inflating to go on top for added comfort.

No experience of z-rest but I've always been happy with multimat in the UK they do some prettry serious cold conditions foam mats.

http://www.multimat.uk.com/store/t/range/expedition

Thanks for sharing this!

ryan Smith wrote:

Thanks for all the insight, i just ordered a nee air pad, NeoAir Xlite, only 8oz!

That thing won't last three nights before it pops. Everyone I know has blasted that thing in no time. I'd recommend the standard yellow neoair. those are good and I have hundreds of nights on mine sleeping on the snow in alaska.