Harness retirement?

Hey all, the protective covering on the lower tie-in point of my harness has worn through. Now the structural stuff beneath - the webbing - is exposed, but not damaged. I'm going to replace it the next time I can get to a gear shop, but I'm wondering whether people have any views on saving the harness and using it occasionally. I often will take a non-climbing friend out to try some top-roping, and it would be convenient to have a spare harness for that.

Pic below:

Think logically. The protective covering is gone. You said yourself that the structural stuff is intact. 

Of course it would be safe to use, but how would it make your "non-climbing friend" feel to have shredded nylon at their tie-in point?

If you decide to keep using it, it would be prudent to inspect it before, during, & after every use. (sounds like an inconvenience...)

Keep in mind that a used harness reserved for your "non-climbing friend" can be found here on MP for like 20 bucks.

This is, obviously, a controversial issue, and for a good reason. 

I would not offer use of this harness to anyone. If I decided to keep it, I would come up with a protective cover for the lower tie in. Perhaps something like Mammut tie in protector

BTW - a thread about this - That cool plastic piece on the tie in point of Mammut and Edelrid harnesses?

Retiring mine because of the same type of wear. This ass ache is part of the belay loop design and we never saw that during pre-loop days. 

It’s not worth the $40 you save.

I had what I believe was the original Edelrid Jay harness that had the plastic edge protector.  Not entirely sure how it happened, but I noticed one day that the edge protector had cracked and was no longer fully secured to the harness.

I contacted Backcountry because it was still under warranty.  They replaced it with the Edelrid Jay II harness which does not have the plastic edge protector.  Makes me think cracking of the plastic edge protector was a frequent issue with the original Jay harness.  (Complete assumption based on my experiences alone though, unsure if others had this issue as well.)

Some wide Velcro on a square of Cordura-type fabric and your harness is (nearly) good as new.

If you question if it's safe, just buy a new one.  Your life is worth more than the few bucks you'd save by not buying a new one.

Since many harnesses don't have any kind of protective covering to begin with and the tie in points are ultra beefy and strong it seems like you are essentially dealing with a harness that is 100% safe and functional.   I sometimes think companies pit those covers on the tie in points to sucker users into retiring them when the cover gets worn when in actuality the tie in isn't worn at all.   Cut that cover off and you would probably think it was brand new.   In fact just cut the cover off and and forget about it, there are still years and years of use left in it.

I’ve had a mammut harness with the plastic piece for about 7 years now, and it has no signs of wear at the tie in loops

Don’t be that guy that gives sketch stuff to your non climbing friends to climb on, YOU should use that harness and let your friend climb on the new one. 

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Can someone explain why the harness pictured is a safety concern specifically and not just the "how much is your life worth" argument or "if you have to think about it replace it" argument.  If those were legit reasons nobody would climb or you would go broke tryin to climb.   

Kevin Mokracek wrote:

Can someone explain why the harness pictured is a safety concern specifically and not just the "how much is your life worth" argument or "if you have to think about it replace it" argument.  If those were legit reasons nobody would climb or you would go broke tryin to climb.   

Those people commentating are paid actors by REI nudging people to buy more gear. It's a global conspiracy along with microfractures.

But really, usually when people ask this kind of question they're almost always overreacting lol

Looks exactly like my gym harness.  If kept as a backup/spare for those occasional days you need one for a friend or whatever, it's fine. If you cover the worn area with some tape or a DIY fabric solution, you can get a lot more life out of it.

As long as you are aware of the issue and remain vigilant in the future, it's 100% safe. No reason to add trash to the landfill unnecessarily...

The sacrificial fabric has been ... sacrificed.  The nylon underneath it looks to be in decent condition.  Looks to be.  Nothing you can post here will match what the human eye will see in person.

The nylon on the waist belt doesn't look like it has excessive wear.

But, all that said, I had some minor fraying on a Petzl Jump harness right where it would begin doubling back through the buckle.

A 40ft lead fall turned that minor fraying into a rip that went about 1/4 of the way through the vertical threading.  The lateral threading remained, for the most part, in tact, albeit heavily poofed out.

However, I think the Petzl Jump was just very prone to this sort of thing, as it started to happen on my replacement Jump harness.  None of my other harnesses, none of them, ever had anything like this happen with them.  But, those Jump harnesses took bigger and more falls than my other harnesses.

If you handed me that harness, I'd use it without any meaningful hesitation.*

* this is assuming that the rest of the harness, the part we can't see, isn't held together by duct tape, or something.**

** I'd probably still use it, but doubtful I'd offer up to lead the harder pitches.

Andy R wrote:

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That's a BAD idea. Along with Jason's similar suggestion above. You don't know what the glue is made of, and how it may or not reaction with nylon. Reaction which may or not be immediate. It's would probably be fine.... but why take the chance? A pointless gamble. There are more than enough smarter, safer solution to that problem. I'd go without the protection before adding unknown chemicals to critical component of the harness.

Even setting aside the safety issues related to random chemicals interactions, the practicality of it is also dumb. Wear & tear on the tape will eventually lead to gummy gunk elsewhere on the harness, which will increasingly suck to deal with.
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I personally would consider keeping it. Would depend on how long I've had it, how much I used it and what's the overall condition. Older nylon has been tested by a few people here and there (not systematically, so take with a grain of salt) and it seems that age alone doesn't weaken it much. Weathering/sun/chemicals or abrasion is what causes issues. If it's your harness, you should know enough about it to make an informed decision.

If you do not, or do not trust your informed decision, then retire it. It's also you piece of mind while climbing that's in play, and that should be worth a few bucks as well.

EZ Pete wrote:

Hmm, maybe the plastic covering isn't such a good idea after all.

Apparently not. I've seen those but thought they would just eventually break, which it appears that they do.

Franck Vee wrote:

That's a BAD idea. Along with Jason's similar suggestion above. You don't know what the glue is made of, and how it may or not reaction with nylon. Reaction which may or not be immediate. It's would probably be fine.... but why take the chance? A pointless gamble. There are more than enough smarter, safer solution to that problem. I'd go without the protection before adding unknown chemicals to critical component of the harness.

Even setting aside the safety issues related to random chemicals interactions, the practicality of it is also dumb. Wear & tear on the tape will eventually lead to gummy gunk elsewhere on the harness, which will increasingly suck to deal with.
===================

I personally would consider keeping it. Would depend on how long I've had it, how much I used it and what's the overall condition. Older nylon has been tested by a few people here and there (not systematically, so take with a grain of salt) and it seems that age alone doesn't weaken it much. Weathering/sun/chemicals or abrasion is what causes issues. If it's your harness, you should know enough about it to make an informed decision.

If you do not, or do not trust your informed decision, then retire it. It's also you piece of mind while climbing that's in play, and that should be worth a few bucks as well.

First wrap inside out, no gunky gunk

I have had 4? harnesses from either mammut or edelrid and never had an issue with the tie in protectors. I think they’re a great idea. If it eventually breaks off (how? Repeated crotch punches?) then you’re still left with a full  strength harness. I would happily use the harness in question and eventually retire it for use doing weighted pull ups or some people use them for sled hauling.