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Scarpa Instinct Lace vs Vapor Lace?

Original Post
Ben E · · San Diego · Joined Sep 2018 · Points: 155

Anyone here by chance have experience with both of these? I've had a couple pairs of Vapor Laces (last seasons model, the yellow ones) and I like them a lot, however the downturn barely lasted and they seemed to lose their stiffness rather quick. Not necessarily always a bad thing though as I primarily climb slab/vertical stuff, and not a ton of overhangs. I've been curious about the Instinct line for a while and I'd kind of like to try the Instinct Laces instead of the Vapors this time. How do the two compare? Im generally climbing on granite, lots of slab and vertical stuff, bouldering and sport, and occasional multipitch/trad (though i'll probably just get another pair for those in the future). Any insight is greatly appreciated here. 

Ben E · · San Diego · Joined Sep 2018 · Points: 155
caughtinside wrote:

They fit very differently.  Look at both shoes from above.  The Vapor is more or less a straight line on the instep, from heel to toe.  On the instinct, at the ball of the foot, the line of the shoe draws inward, pulling the big toe toward the 2nd toe.  

It's a foot shape thing.  Take a look at your foot and see if if your foot more resembles the shape of the vapor, or the instinct.  I'm always kind of surprised by people who can wear both shoes.

Interesting to hear. I haven’t actually tried on the instinct laces, but a while back I tried on the Instinct VS and I remember them fitting my foot perfectly. I have the vapor laces now and they also seem to fit my foot well, though maybe I’m not remembering correctly about the VS fitting me perfectly. 

Zach L · · Northern Vermont · Joined Oct 2012 · Points: 10

the toe of the new vapor lace is very tall and not very precise. the instinct lace has a much more precise, lower volume toe point which I appreciate for microedges and toeing in on finger cracks, etc.

I also thought the new vapor laces would be stiffer, but after using both vapor lace and instinct lace, I think they are pretty comparable stiffness-wise. perhaps the vapor lace are slightly stiffer, but they also lose their downturn pretty quickly. I am a fan of the instinct lace because they keep their downturn, provide enough support and stiffness for most vertical face climbing, and have a very precise low volume pointy toe for small chips and cracks.

Ben E · · San Diego · Joined Sep 2018 · Points: 155
Zach L wrote:

the toe of the new vapor lace is very tall and not very precise. the instinct lace has a much more precise, lower volume toe point which I appreciate for microedges and toeing in on finger cracks, etc.

I also thought the new vapor laces would be stiffer, but after using both vapor lace and instinct lace, I think they are pretty comparable stiffness-wise. perhaps the vapor lace are slightly stiffer, but they also lose their downturn pretty quickly. I am a fan of the instinct lace because they keep their downturn, provide enough support and stiffness for most vertical face climbing, and have a very precise low volume pointy toe for small chips and cracks.

This is good to hear. Yeah I was actually considering just getting the old yellow vapor laces since they’re still available and on sale everywhere instead of the new blue/yellow ones. Not sure how they compare. I think if the stiffness with the instincts are about the same, or slightly less stiff but last longer, I may just have to try those this time. How do you feel they perform on slab? I know they’re not exactly a slab shoe, but I do find myself on a lot of friction slab and I want to make sure I’ll be satisfied with them their. I actually liked the yellow vapor laces a lot for slab after they lost their downturn. Thanks for all the insight 

Zach L · · Northern Vermont · Joined Oct 2012 · Points: 10
Ben E wrote:

This is good to hear. Yeah I was actually considering just getting the old yellow vapor laces since they’re still available and on sale everywhere instead of the new blue/yellow ones. Not sure how they compare. I think if the stiffness with the instincts are about the same, or slightly less stiff but last longer, I may just have to try those this time. How do you feel they perform on slab? I know they’re not exactly a slab shoe, but I do find myself on a lot of friction slab and I want to make sure I’ll be satisfied with them their. I actually liked the yellow vapor laces a lot for slab after they lost their downturn. Thanks for all the insight 

I don't climb a whole lot of pure slab. but once broken in, I think the split sole of the instinct allows the shoe to smear pretty ok. I am happy to have the precision of the Insincts on anything where tiny feet and toeing in is important. The vapor may smear better, but I don't think they edge or smedge as well.

Zach L · · Northern Vermont · Joined Oct 2012 · Points: 10

Here are some photos of both shoes side by side. the instincts have a fairly fresh resole. the vapors are fairly new and just haven't gotten a lot of use...

Zach L · · Northern Vermont · Joined Oct 2012 · Points: 10
caughtinside wrote:

Good shots Vermaine. That first one really shows the difference in the toe box shape.

I look for shoes shaped like the vapors lace, because that’s the shape of my foot. Years ago, I climbed in old katanas, which are shaped like the instincts. The katanas climbed great, and when it was just a couple nights a week at the gym it was no problem.  When I started climbing full time, my feet developed problems very quickly. I stopped using the katanas and my feet got better fast, although I think they still have lingering issues relating to right or wrong fitting shoes.

It would be interesting to get data on the condition of climbers feet after years of tight shoes. Maybe I’ll make a film since no one talks about it: Tight - the documentary. 

Ha! I'd watch that film. 

I do think that even the more aggressive Scarpa shoes have a narrow heel/wide toe box type shape that makes them a bit more bearable for people who don't have narrow feet. Also, sizing the shoes appropriately is important.  I have a pair of Instinct VS that are 42.5s, the Instinct Laces are 43s, and I am rocking some Boostics in a 44 (I think) and everyone who swears by these shoes is right - sized generously, they are comfy yet capable techy granite shoes...

For face climbing, I don't really mind the height of the toebox on the vapor, but the roundedness of the toe box makes toeing in or edging on shitty micro feet feel more like guessing than precision, whereas the Instinct toebox allows you to really put your toe where it needs to go. And for crack climbing, the tall toe box makes getting rand contact and toeing into the crack very difficult.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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