Tagline/Rope management

So my buddy and I got out on Royal Arches yesterday and had a great time. We took a 75m 6mm tagline out to use as a pull cord for our 70m rope. While it was nice linking the last four raps (2 and 2) we found it very difficult to manage the rope and the tagline together. Really just the tagline caused problems. It’s given to knotting and turning into a rat’s nest. Anyone have any suggestions on a system for keeping a tagline neat on rappel? Especially multiple rappels. Thanks!

Last time I used a 60m 6mm tag line I kept it flaked in a stuff sack. On rappel, it fed out of the bag while it hung from my harness. When pulling down the ropes my partner flaked it back into its bag while I pulled the rope down. Super duper clean and easy. Highly recommend.

The stuff sack we used was the large metolius. It was about 2-3x larger than necessary for the tiny rope. 

yep, it is indeed a fustercluck...IF you don't manage the tag. That said, either rope can be coiled, and generally the most efficient method is going to be for the person pulling through to be coiling as they pull through, and the person pulling down to just let the second rope whip on by. I know I should tie knots but I know those raps well enough to know what I can and cannot do.

Generally I lead those raps, and I'm almost always doing the pulling from above. my partner will be doing the threading pull, and thus they need to be coiling for me. once the second rope is whipping down and the middle/tie-together point is at the chains, I go on device with a couple feet of slack. I then take the nice coil from my partner and place it on my L arm (as I use my R hand for braking- w/ a glove, of course) while they go on device, above mine. Once they're on, I snug up my device and come off direct, start rapping. There's one strand hanging all the way down, and one strand looped on my L arm, coming off one small loop at a time as I rap. Usually takes me 3-4min until it's ready for partner (3, 3 station raps and 2, 2 station raps) who should only take 60s to rap the line, since it's established with no fuss for them.

This ensures that one rope doesn't do that fuggin annoying "twist around the other rope" trick that creates a royal fustercluck (no pun intended). Obviously on the last long rap (before the walk down at the tree/gully) you have to coil both ropes before leaving the rap station, so you can get over those extended ledges. Also, I assume you did a total of 5 raps, then walked back to the original start and did the single rope rap? with that length of rope, it's 4 raps to the walkdown at the tree/gully, then the double station rap down to the start of P2, then untie ropes and walk back to start, single rope rap to start of chimney. so, in truth, 5.5 raps, total, w/ double 70m lines.

Both these techniques sound really useful, thanks! I feel like a tagline could be more viable now.

We did the last double rap off a dead tree to the ground. We had to walk to that station over some third class from the bottom of our first double rap. Every other rap we did was a single. In the future I would do more double raps now that I know the beta. 

Two more questions on tagline raps:

1: Do you use an EDK or the bulkier Gibbs Bend to join the ropes? I heard Sterling recommends a Gibbs.  Is a biner necessary if you use a knot as big as the Gibbs? 

2: Do you put a prussick on both the rope and tagline, or just one? We put the prussick around both. The tagline isn’t really being weighted, but does that help or hurt rope management? It seemed to get kinks out, but with what I’ve read here kinks wouldn’t be as common.

hmm, if you had a 75m tag, then the raps go like this: 3-3-2-3-walk-2-walk back to just above chimney-1.

meaning, you bypass TWO stations from the start, trending L. then you bypass another TWO stations, trending R. then you only bypass one station (though it might be close w/ the 75 tag ;). then you bypass TWO stations and come off on a pedestal to climbers R, downclimb 10ft on 5.1 terrain, and walk down to the big tree, downclimb/walk that gully to the rap station above the start of P2, rap from there, bypassing one station, and untying ropes at the bottom. Walk 200m back to the line that intersects the alternate start and chimney, find the big honking rings, do a single rope rap to the ground from there.

I join with a double EDK, one with 20" of tail and another one w/ about 10" of tail (so about 6" between the knots). Second knot is likely unnecessary...but it makes me feel better, eh?

edit: yololz, it really doesn't matter too much which rope is coiled (though, admittedly, my 7.1 skimmer does tend to coil/twist more than the 8.5 opera), as long as there's not two ropes next to each other, this is the key. 

edit #2: No prussik, no backup. I use a solid glove as my backup. The braking force I can generate between a leather palmed glove and extending the device on a quickdraw gives me way more peace of mind than I'll ever need. Knotting the ends is a good idea as well, though I don't on RA, since i know exactly where each segment ends and what the rope length will allow. Don't listen to me and knot your ends anyway, but a 3rd hand makes it tough for the follower to rap a triple station in 60s (it honestly should not take the 2nd any more than 60s to rap 220ft, once the line is established).