Are double-wall shelters that much warmer?

Like the MSR Access 2, Hilleberg Jannu. Mostly thinking of ski touring use with temps 0-20°F. How much warmer are these than bivy tents like the Direkt 2, Firstlight? Do they allow you to use a lighter sleeping bag? Are there any surprising benefits of having a warmer tent (easier to wake up maybe)?

They don't leave you covered in condensation in the morning because they can actually vent out and it goes to the fly. That's the big advantage and I think it's more than worth it. Plenty of light and simple options like the Nemo Kunai

For ski touring around here I’d look at a mid type flourless shelter. They don’t cram you getting condensation on your bag or making the skiing terrible like the weight and bulk of a double wall.

Fwiw I’ve done nights in a firstlight, direkt 2, jannu, twilight bivy, tarp over trench, mid and duo mid. The mids were definitely my choice in the cascades. 

Not much warmer. If warmth is your main goal a warmer sleeping bag would be a much more efficient use of your weight/bulk allowance.

Better condensation management for longer trips, but maybe not worth it for typical 1-2 night Cascade objectives. 

No.

+1 on the mid for cascade ski tours, weight to shelter space is pretty ideal.

I used a mid on a couple trans-Sierra tours in the late '80s. If you've got enough snow to stamp out a flat platform below the surrounding snow (and maybe build a wall around the tent) then mids are great. Heavy wet snow like you find in the Sierra Nevada and the Cascades is great for this kind of thing.. 

Nick Drake wrote:

For ski touring around here I’d look at a mid type flourless shelter.

Excellent typo/auto-correct!

Sounds like mids are quite favored. Thoughts on getting a floor, and silnylon vs cuben? I've heard about gear getting wet when it's floorless on snow. The weight savings is very attractive though. 

James C wrote:

Sounds like mids are quite favored. Thoughts on getting a floor, and silnylon vs cuben? I've heard about gear getting wet when it's floorless on snow. The weight savings is very attractive though. 

neither. I prefer silpoly, as it doesn’t stretch when wet like silnylon, and I personally don’t find the advantages of cuben justify the cost. However, all those materials have their trade offs. Advantage of silnylon IS the stretch, in other situations, such as ease of pitch. Silnylon and silpoly can also just be stuffed away—cuben (i guess they call it dyneema now) needs to be folded. cuben also repairs easier (just tape it). If it’s your first mid, I’d recommend getting something cheaper at first, see if you like the shape. I personally don’t care for the shape, but many people love it.

Floorless tents are fine as there is no flour, err snow blowing. Or really any wind as then any warm air is lost.

I have used single wall and double wall tents for ski tours and in the hills. I would not say double wall tents are significantly but they are warmer because of the trapped air layer. With a double wall tent moisture will pass through the walls before condensing. Single wall tents are great because of the weight savings.

If you have your eye on Cascade objectives you probably do not want a floorless tent. They seem cool for overnight ski trips, but I don’t know if you’d want to be in one on Rainier when a wind event hits. 

A single wall tent is not much warmer than a double in my experience. They weigh a lot less than a double. I bought an MSR Advance 2 and it weighs 3 lbs. 

You can solve the condensation problem in a single wall by placing your clothes on top of your bag. Andy Kirkpatrick has a great article on this on his website. 

mark felber wrote:

I used a mid on...

When you guys say "mid", do you mean pyramid?

I meant Pyramid, specifically the Chouinard Pyramid and Black Diamond MegaMid tents.

Having done many multi-day ski tours, I would never go more than two nights in a Mid. Simply not enough protection in bad weather. My girlfriend and I use a Hilleberg Anjan II. Address temperature issues with the proper sleeping bag, and pad. Warm fluids to take the chill off.
Mids also take longer to prep and setup. Lots of digging. They work well for communal spaces.

I never use anything other than a floorless pyramid for multi day ski tours.  Much more comfortable and much lighter than any double wall or traditional free-standing tent option.  

I've used pyramids for more than 30 years for hundreds of nights out in every sort of weather condition.  The only thing they don't handle well is massive swarms of mosquitoes. For winter, a well made mid will handle everything you encounter, from high winds to heavy snow.  

I'd spring for a cuben fiber fabric option.  More expensive, but cuben fiber fabric is lighter, and it doesn't stretch when it gets wet like sil-nylon fabric does.  

There's a bunch of companies that make cuben fiber mids.  The best I've seen are those from Locus Gear in Japan.  The most reasonably priced are those from Bear Paw Designs in Colorado.   

Kai Larson wrote:

I've used pyramids for more than 30 years for hundreds of nights out in every sort of weather condition.  The only thing they don't handle well is massive swarms of mosquitoes. For winter, a well made mid will handle everything you encounter, from high winds to heavy snow.     

I spent one night at Wonder Lake (Denali NP, AK) in a floorless mid pitched fairly close to the ground, at the height of mosquito season. Not one mosquito got into my tent. I was told the next morning that the cloud of mosquitoes above my tent was so thick people couldn't see through it, but apparently none of the mosquitoes went under the rim of my tent, they just kept trying to fly straight through the fabric to get at me.

mark felber wrote:

I spent one night at Wonder Lake (Denali NP, AK) in a floorless mid pitched fairly close to the ground, at the height of mosquito season. Not one mosquito got into my tent. I was told the next morning that the cloud of mosquitoes above my tent was so thick people couldn't see through it, but apparently none of the mosquitoes went under the rim of my tent, they just kept trying to fly straight through the fabric to get at me.

Those Alaskan mosquitos are dumb AF.