Hard to feed rope through belay device

I guided a route the other day for the first time (hooray) but I struggled a bit when belaying my partner from above. I used a brand new edelweiss guru alpin belay device in guide mode and a  9.8mm simond rope, and I had a lot of trouble pulling the slack from the rope through the device. It was very draggy even tough the device is rated for ropes up to 11mm. It got me worried because I had to push my partners rope with my hands in a way that, should he fall, my fingers would get stuck between the rope and device. 

The rope is in pretty good condition, and not frayed at all. Was perfectly dry too. I tried the device in normal belay position later and still had a lot of difficulty feeding rope through... 

Is this something that happens, getting a device that drags too much? Do they have to be broken in or something? Or is it all a technique issue? 

How old is the rope? 

Also, alpine belay devices tend to struggle with some 'normal to thick' ropes even if they are rated for it, in my experience. 

Congrats on your first lead climb!

This is not a technique issue, and belay devices do not need to be broken in.

While I have never belayed with that specific device it appears to just be an ATC Guide clone. I’d say that it is likely the rope bearing carabiner that’s your problem. What are you using for the locker that your rope is passing over?

I would suggest one of the following, due to their round cross section and HMS shape:

• Metolius Element
• Sterling Falcon
• Rock Exotica Pirate
• Kong HMS Napik
• Trango Regulock HMS

Fifo wrote:

I guided a route the other day for the first time (hooray) 

Did you mean you "led" a route for the first time? I don't think you meant "guided."

Something to consider is if the rope was difficult the entire way, even the last bit when you know for certain that there was not rope drag in the system. Rope drag makes it hard to pull in rope, no matter the device. 

Also, no matter what, your technique needs some major improving if you are risking getting your hand caught in the device. Ive never seen anytime when that is a necessary risk. Keep your fingers and hands out of harms way, ALWAYS!

Try a grigri instead if its hard to pull. Most actual guides I know do it just to save their elbows from hauling up newbies all day. Did you try pulling up with one hand and pulling down with the other?

I think more and more belay devices are optimized for skinnier ropes nowadays. A fat round stock HMS as suggested can help a bit.

Guide mode in particular can suck regardless. If you get sick of wrecking your shoulders/elbows and belaying seems like more work than climbing here are some suggestions (besides a skinnier rope).

1) If you have a Grigri they pull reasonably well from above (and lower super easily if your partner that day is likely to struggle), but they aren't as quick to lock as a guide plaquette so keep the brake side of the rope taut at all times. 

2) a dedicated plaquette for top belay eg Kong Gigi. Worth the extra weight for some people. Pulls eaaaaaasy and locks perfectly. 

M M wrote:

 Did you try pulling up with one hand and pulling down with the other?

Never neglect the low hanging fruit! Good suggestion. 

Thanks everyone for the replies!

The belay device was dragging hard all the time, even with plenty of slack in the rope. I was feeding the partner's rope with my left hand and pulling the other side with the right, but doing that made the carabiner bite into the device and lock the rope, and if i kept feeding it would just pile rope before the device. Tried some variations of pulling and feeding but couldn't get the rope to slide. I then had to pinch the partner's side of the rope and force it into the device (hence the fingers getting stuck worry), after which a loop would form around the carabiner, and only then i could pull that with my right hand. The rope never really did slide smoothly. I tried to keep this loop small to prevent my partner from tumbling too much if he fell, which was definitely a workout, and didn't feel right.

Interesting bit about the rope bearing carabiner, if I recall I just used a standard locking, although when I later tried stardard top roping belay with a HMS i didn't see much improvement in how easy it was to feed. I'll try to set up a testing rig at home and try out multiple carabiners.

Did you mean you "led" a route for the first time? I don't think you meant "guided."

You are correct. In my native language we say guiding instead of leading, sometimes i just miss the english jargon completely.

Not Hobo Greg wrote:

If you have a microtrax or something similar you can put they on the brake strand and clip into it, thereby using your body to pull.

I've definitely seen guides doing this on those special clients that like it tight, usually a prusik though

Fifo wrote:

I then had to pinch the partner's side of the rope and force it into the device (hence the fingers getting stuck worry), after which a loop would form around the carabiner, and only then i could pull that with my right hand. 

Are you sure that you weren't set up backwards?  Either hanging the device from the wrong end, or having your partner's rope underneath?

With the small ATC Alpine GUide (rated only up to 9mm ropes)  I was able to use an aged (but not fluffy) 9mm rope with a beam  cross-section biner.   With my DMM Pivot it was difficult to put an aged 11mm rope through the slots, and just this side of impossible to pull it over the beam  cross-section biner.

What did your partner say after you brought him up?  

Would love to see a photo of how you had your device set up to belay from above 

9.8mm is really big for any normal reverso-style device. Yes it will work, but will do your back and elbows in. These things are best for half ropes. A reverso is bad above 8.5mm; a BD a little better. For single ropes I suggest you look at a real guide plate (look into how to clip it with a single strand). Steph Davis has some comments on this.

Additionally it is easier to use devices in guide mode if the anchor/device is above you rather than waist high. The angle of pull can make quite a difference. 

Greg R wrote:

Additionally it is easier to use devices in guide mode if the anchor/device is above you rather than waist high. The angle of pull can make quite a difference. 

That would be the first thing I'd be looking at.  They pull a lot easier with the device above you than, say, at your waist or below.  But I dunno how it was setup so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

David Coley wrote:

9.8mm is really big for any normal reverso-style device. Yes it will work, but will do your back and elbows in. These things are best for half ropes. A reverso is bad above 8.5mm; a BD a little better. For single ropes I suggest you look at a real guide plate (look into how to clip it with a single strand). Steph Davis has some comments on this.

I think David is talking about a Kong Gigi (not Gri Gri!).  (The Camp Ovo is another brand but a tad less effective if you want to belay two seconds simultaneously.)  Although it is a special-purpose upper belay device, it is notably smoother than Reverso-style devices when it comes to pulling rope through.  

As always, rgold sorts my semi-coherent warbling into something useful

:) 

Steph Davis' article: https://stephdavis.co/blog/kong-gigi/

I bought the Kong Gigi along with the recommended locker for it, but ended up almost never using it due to its specificity. I can see its use for a professional guide. Nowadays, I use a Grigri II, or a Mad Rock Lifeguard if I care about weight, for lead belay and top belay. I carry a Edelrid Mega Jul (light weight) for rappel and as a backup belay device.

The top belay experience is not determined by the device itself. One has to take the rope (diameter, age, and sheath material and construction) into consideration. 

Hey! I don't know if i'm getting late to this topic but i had the same problem 2 years ago. I got this Edelweiss Guru Alpin ATC in my rack for a multi pitch climbing and it dissapointed me a lot! I wasn't able to belay my partner with this ATC neither from the top of the pitch nor from the start. My rope was a 9.8mm Beal and it just didn't work well. I tried later at the gym to check what was the problem. It seems that the carabiner tightly clamps the rope against the ATC so the rope can't run freely enough. I sent a message to Edelweiss FB (usa, canada & france) telling what happened to me with their product and finally they let me change for another Edelweiss product. Please, text them and explain what happened to you, we're placing our integrity in their poor belay system. Cheers!

Sebastián, Chile,  7 years experience rock climber.