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Upcoming new ice screws
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Just throwing this up here https://us.blueice.com/products/aero-lite They do look a lot like the Petzl Alu screws... |
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Ice/Rock is also coming out with new screws |
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Wait. “enabling rope attachment with or without a ‘biner”? |
Double J wrote: |
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GRIVEL https://grivel.com/collections/coming-soon/products/helium https://grivel.com/collections/coming-soon/products/720-speedy |
Fabien M wrote: Very excited to finally have a 10cm aluminum option. |
Marco Velo wrote: I guess, technically, if you untie, pass the rope trough and tie again the claim would make some sense ... |
Fabien M wrote: They are lighter, larger in diameter, and have a better hanger than Petzl. They are actually quite different, speaking from experience with both. |
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Nate - Curious what’s better about the hanger. Lighter is good on face value, but BD’s have larger tube and are lighter but after a season and a half using both, I prefer the Petzl (mostly softer ice placements). Can you specify what you find better about the Blue Ice? I like the 10cm option |
Double J wrote: That link doesn't work when I try it. |
Mark Pilate wrote: I'll preface by saying that there are a lot of good screws at this point, so some things are going to boil down to preferences or splitting hairs differences. I've only been using prototype, (not even pre-production) Blue Ice screws so some things will probably change a little by the time they go to production... The Blue Ice hangers are color coded, which makes things a little faster to identify, and in my opinion they rack quite a bit better than the Petzl hangers. I have found the Blue Ice to start more aggressively than my Petzl screws (4 tooth Laser Speed Lite). The larger tube diameter is most notably nice for making threads, and can be used to re-bore old holes in good ice. I'm guessing it has some strength advantages, but I have no data to back that so I'll avoid stating it as fact. The weight difference isn't enormous, but it's noticeable when you compare a rack of Blue Ice to a rack of Petzls in an apples to apples comparison. |
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These look fun. I haven’t been a huge fan of my BD express. Between Cassin, Petzl, and BD my favorite so far has been the Cassin Rocket—haven’t tried Grivel, Salewa, or others. Big fan so far of my other Blue Ice gear, so hopefully these deliver! |
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After using them, I think these new Blue Ice screws are a big step forward -- to preface, there's a good thread about how aluminum screws typically get stuck in wet ice (thread was initially about the Petzl Laser Speed Light). It gets into details like the 3-tooth design and bore diameter and math and science and stuff that goes way above my head. But I do know that my lightweight aluminum screws -- which are otherwise awesome -- bind-up and become worthless in sticky ice. Can be a real problem, and dangerous. Thus I and most climbers I know bring a mix of the heavier steels and the aluminums. The aluminums save a *lot* of weight, so it's always a conundrum. Anyhow, upon reading the thread, where some educated people chimed in (and made my head spin), the binding issue appears more complex than simply the materials. Personally, I have a mix of BD steel and Petzl lightweight aluminums, all 4-tooth design. But I got my hands on some pre-production Blue Ice screws -- they're aluminum (and far lighter than the others), have 3 teeth (like your mom), and have a larger bore size (I don't know...the increase in thread contact area should increase strength?). I went for a jaunt up a couloir last week and conducted tests in wet, plastic ice. I took videos, which I thought would show everything best, but they suck and are like 3 minutes long each, me holding my phone with one hand and turning screws in the other, playing Howard Cosell while trying not to fall (I'd feel stupid if I died doing that..."down goes Cordes!"). I'm crap for editing video, so I figured I'd write a summary of my results and attach some photos. Basic info on the 3 screws I tested: • All were 13cm • Blue Ice is aluminum and has 3 teeth • Petzl is aluminum, BD is steel, both have 4 teeth • Weights (multiply by 10 or 12 or whatever, and it’s significant): -BI 63g -Petzl 92g -BD 136g I stopped and did trials with the screws 3 different times during the climb, trying to get very similar ice for each screw. I placed (or tried to) each screw a couple of different times at each stop. Thus each screw had at least 6 placements in wet ice of identical consistency. While not lab science and not a huge sample size, my results: • Curiously to me, the Blue Ice started much easier. They’re new, so could be the teeth, but the teeth on my others were sharp (hadn’t been ground into rocks). Intuitively I figured 4 teeth would bite better, but the 3-tooth BI were much easier to start. Video shows it clearly (I should learn to edit). • Petzl aluminum (which I love in drier ice) bound like crazy, including at the start, hard to get going. Then it’d go anywhere from halfway to 2/3 in, before binding to a halt in solid ice, every time. Would suck if I actually needed it for pro. • BD steel went in well. Some hard starting but then mostly good, a few hitches (it was really wet!) but it'd move past them. • Blue Ice (also aluminum) was awesome every time. A few brief hitches, as with the BD, but then it'd continue to the hilt. Never had an aluminum work so well in wet ice, pretty freakin impressive. Not sure if it's the 3 teeth or the bore size or both. Went in equal or better than the BD steel, but less than half the weight (63g vs 136g). Sticky ice couloir:  Bore size comparison:  Various placements:    |
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Hey Kelly, nice write up and pics. Good info. And ideally I’d like this data before I do any Late spring/Summer ice couliors and have to do it all myself, thanks in advance. Either way though, based on your data, I’m pretty much sold on the Blue Ice as it has the best of all worlds: 3 teeth, bigger bore, lighter weight, places well By the way, what route was that? Looks awesome. |
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Now Blue Ice just needs to start selling these... |
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Ha, thanks Mark! Indeed, my test had gaps -- maybe that 3 teeth thing is the major delineator? Seems it could be (amazing to me, I'd have never guessed, or guessed the opposite). Then again, my BD steel are 4 teeth, and, once started, went in just as well as the BI. Likely a combo of factors, but for sure the newer BD and Petzl aluminums would make the test apples to apples. I was pretty blown away, regardless of reason (# of teeth, bore, whatever it was), to have an aluminum screw work so damned well in wet ice. Same boat here, I'm pretty excited about the Blue Ice screws on the whole -- teeth, bore, weight, design (the lever has nice action, and the clipping hole easy accepts 2 biners). The route is called Martha couloir, on Mt Lady Washington in RMNP. Fun local route, pretty popular (unless you go on a weekday afternoon, ha...had a good cold day). And yeah, Chris, hopefully soon. Or at least before next winter :). |
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^ Dang! I thought that was Martha. Was out there 4 weeks ago and this was on the agenda but I skipped it due to so much recent snow at the time. Was snowing almost nonstop while I was there. It sure seems that maybe Blue Ice has figured out whatever black magic is involved in aluminum ice screw design. BD needs to sprinkle some more chicken blood and burn more candles...
Pretty crazy. |
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Gonna have to adjust my ice screw budget accordingly now...damn |
Kelly Cordes wrote: I haven't stopped laughing all day... |
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These arrived today. The first impression is that the quality is exceptional. I don't have any other aluminum screws to compare to currently, but I did have some steel Petzl and Cassin screws to look at. While the Blue Ice is listed as 19cm the actual length of the tube and drill is only 1cm longer than a Petzl 17cm. I was wondering where the weight savings over Petzl aluminum came from, and now seeing them side by side it is in the hanger. Instead of being a flat piece of metal which has a hole punched in it and then bent to form a hanger - this hanger is entirely symmetrical and takes up much less room than the Petzl hanger. The hole is a bit smaller - and closer in size to the hole in the Cassin hanger - though with a slightly different geometry. The handle knob and lever spring open very crisply - like a wiregate with more spring tension. I'm cautiously optimistic - but the jury is out till I can find some soft wet ice to place them in.      |
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Per an older BD QC lab article the outer diameters of the BD screws are: 17.2mm (steel) and 19.2mm (alum); and the Petzl (old 4 tooth) diameters are: 16.5mm (steel) and 17.9mm (alum). So I’m curious as to what the outer diameter of the BI screws are. I know the main thing is how much do the aluminum screws bind up in wet ice, but since the BI screws have the largest diameter how much more likely are they to fracture brittle ice when compared to the 3 tooth Petzl aluminum screws? Or is it an insignificant difference in diameters which won’t really affect it at all? |
