New crampon from Blue Ice

Blue ice released images of their new Harfang UL crampon.

Some very interesting aspects:

Very lightweight: claimed 420g with antibots, which is 100 grams less than my pair of Irvis Hybrids with antibotts(523g).

I like the steel front points.

I like that they have a adjustment dial on the heel lever, especially with theses non-metal connectors, I want to make sure I have it just right for tightness.

I like the wire for the heel lever. Should be a bit lighter and fit better around various boot heels.

I like the disconnected midfoot section for pack ability, and the fact that you’ll get a perfect fit regardless of the rocker of your boot.

I wonder about the durability/performance of the aluminum mid foot points.

I do wonder how it will do when front pointing. Won’t the front piece rotate, and try and “peel away” from the boot sole?

https://us.blueice.com/products/harfang

I feel like if you're front pointing for any length of time with these you brought the wrong crampon. 

I don't think they are exactly designed to do a lot of front pointing but might work in a pinch. 

My other initial concern with them is the durability of the textile strap (although it might be a moot point since I haven't seen them in person). I know there are other offerings on the market from Dynafit, Petzl, etc but the textile strap has a much larger surface area on these and my initial thought was it could be prone to rock abrasion and get damaged/ripped more easily.

Interesting concept for sure and I would like to try them out at some point.

These are definitely geared towards ski mountaineering or mellow snow stuff. I would think twice before taking these on a technical climb. 

This is undoubtedly a ski-mo crampon, I unfortunately don't see a reason to go with these as opposed to petzl's system though. If i buy an irvis hybrid i can put the front of my darts on them and have a super light super high performing crampon. The only possible advantage i see is the slightly reduced pack volume and 200g off my feet.

Yeah, obviously these are not at all intended for hard climbing on ice or mixed Terrain.

They are, after all, a 10 point crampon, with the majority or all points in aluminum. So the use case would be similar to other 10 point, aluminum, or aluminum/steel hybrids.

So, of course not something you’d grab for long session of frontpointing hard ice. But, with steel front points, You’d still want to be able to front point some shorter or lower angle sections of harder ice.
Even if it’s only a short step, I like to feel my crampons are securely attached, and that was what made me wonder about how these would perform. Not expecting them to perform like a Dart or G20 or something like that  

The packed size is a real draw, crampons are such a pain to pack, for outings where you won’t be wearing them much. The supplied hip belt pouch seems real smart, I might set up my Irvis Hybrid like that too.

Having tried some of the Petzl aluminum crampons ( ones with dyneema cords) my pet peeve and potentially one issue here is the lack of lateral restrain. They always slide sideways/ want to rotate if using in “ French” mode ( old school!) or traversing.

The adjustable heel piece is a big plus Atmo...

And that packed size!

Cripes... more stuff to maybe buy. Could have used the more two days ago...

bummer it only comes with an automatic toe binding—clearly intended for skiers and not where you’d prefer to just have approach shoes 

zimick wrote:

Having tried some of the Petzl aluminum crampons ( ones with dyneema cords) my pet peeve and potentially one issue here is the lack of lateral restrain. They always slide sideways/ want to rotate if using in “ French” mode ( old school!) or traversing.

The adjustable heel piece is a big plus Atmo...

And that packed size!

Cripes... more stuff to maybe buy. Could have used the more two days ago...

(Came across this thread randomly.)

I had the same issue with the Petzl hybrid crampons. I recently decided to tighten them to a point that I would consider “too tight” for normal crampons. The little heel tabs basically dig into the sole when buckling, and it requires my adze to unbuckle them. But no more toe rotation! 

Chris C wrote:

(Came across this thread randomly.)

I had the same issue with the Petzl hybrid crampons. I recently decided to tighten them to a point that I would consider “too tight” for normal crampons. The little heel tabs basically dig into the sole when buckling, and it requires my adze to unbuckle them. But no more toe rotation! 

Chris,

I came up with same solution with having them so tight that I really struggled to get them on and they compressed into my boot heels…Tried stretching cords etc with various torture devices in my basement. Lol

Just not the perfect design… adjustment steps seem too big and even super tight they slide sideways a bit on my side 41 boots…

I have a “ let me know when you have them” email into Blue Ice.

z

Yup, far from perfect design indeed.  This is the best we've got!

Photo of me doubting my crampons...haha   

Just got a pair and I’m in love, they pack super easily and once you adjust them a few times(the fabric stretches the first few times it gets wet) they stay on great, I’m planning on using them this weekend for skiing SW chutes of Adams. Of course I wouldn’t wanna front point in them, but they are great for skimo missions and less technical peaks. As with all blue ice stuff I own, build quality is great. I hope they don’t sell out anytime soon

Lucas Ng wrote:

Just got a pair and I’m in love, they pack super easily and once you adjust them a few times(the fabric stretches the first few times it gets wet) they stay on great, I’m planning on using them this weekend for skiing SW chutes of Adams. Of course I wouldn’t wanna front point in them, but they are great for skimo missions and less technical peaks. As with all blue ice stuff I own, build quality is great. I hope they don’t sell out anytime soon

Is wet the thing that causes the stretch? I found it annoying that it stretches when adjusting the size (borrowing it out, switching ski to mountaineering boots, etc), i was expecting movement to cause the initial stretch.

I didn’t think about that but movement could totally be the reason. Either way, if you just spend an hour practicing crampon usage and adjusting them as you go — which probably isn’t a bad idea especially due to special design — then you should be set afterwards

The Camp version is nice too.  A tiny bit heavier, but very robust.

Recently, a few people I know with smaller feet were having issues with their irvis hybrid staying put, with the heel piece often tilting and rotating out of place during a climb. Some of them had new La Sportiva boots with a funky square heel, which might have contributed. We played around with the crampon settings and made it super tight, but there was still a tendency to tilt and get out of place.

Ultimately, I think the petzl heel piece design is not great with really small boots or square heels. It hangs off the front edge of the heel rubber, plus the heel lever attachment is really far forward which allows the whole heel piece to tilt like a hinge. The petzl platform was originally designed for a rigid center bar, where this isn't a problem, so when they swapped in the cord they kept the heel design for modularity / continuity and so it's not specially designed to work with a hyper flexible crampon.

I got a pair of the Harfang hybrid for skimo and the heel lever wire attaches in the center of the heel piece, which almost entirely prevents this hinge / tilting issue. I sized them to some smaller boots and they feel way more stable than the irvis hybrid on those same boots. Plus the fat dyneema strap is infinitely adjustable and more confidence inspiring for durability. 

I love all my Petzl crampons, and the irvis hybrid work fine on my big feet, but the blue ice seem better designed as a flexible crampon platform IMO. I think for smaller feet / some boots the harfang alpine hybrid (12pt steel front section, same aluminum harfang rear section) might be a better fit. 

K Go wrote:

Recently, a few people I know with smaller feet were having issues with their irvis hybrid staying put, with the heel piece often tilting and rotating out of place during a climb. Some of them had new La Sportiva boots with a funky square heel, which might have contributed. We played around with the crampon settings and made it super tight, but there was still a tendency to tilt and get out of place.

Ultimately, I think the petzl heel piece design is not great with really small boots or square heels. It hangs off the front edge of the heel rubber, plus the heel lever attachment is really far forward which allows the whole heel piece to tilt like a hinge. The petzl platform was originally designed for a rigid center bar, where this isn't a problem, so when they swapped in the cord they kept the heel design for modularity / continuity and so it's not specially designed to work with a hyper flexible crampon.

I got a pair of the Harfang hybrid for skimo and the heel lever wire attaches in the center of the heel piece, which almost entirely prevents this hinge / tilting issue. I sized them to some smaller boots and they feel way more stable than the irvis hybrid on those same boots. Plus the fat dyneema strap is infinitely adjustable and more confidence inspiring for durability. 

I love all my Petzl crampons, and the irvis hybrid work fine on my big feet, but the blue ice seem better designed as a flexible crampon platform IMO. I think for smaller feet / some boots the harfang alpine hybrid (12pt steel front section, same aluminum harfang rear section) might be a better fit. 

I agree with a lot of what you're saying. Unfortunately the Blue Ice semi-auto toe bail seems to be too narrow and a poor fit for many boots which hoses a lot of its versatility as a design. 

NateC wrote:

I agree with a lot of what you're saying. Unfortunately the Blue Ice semi-auto toe bail seems to be too narrow and a poor fit for many boots which hoses a lot of its versatility as a design. 

I believe they have 2 different toe bail options, and different harfang configurations come with different ones as standard. The harfang hybrid I got came with the wider toe bail for ski boots (plus separate toe baskets), but I think the harfang alpine hybrid comes with a narrower toe bail for mountaineering boots. You can buy them both separately now, as well as the toe baskets. I think originally they only shipped wire bails with the harfangs, but now give you baskets too.

Personally I only use toe bail wires for ski boots and ice climbing, and I prefer toe baskets otherwise. For example I used the irvis hybrid on my 3 season Salewa boots this year on eldorado and baker in WA with toe baskets and they felt rock solid. So maybe try toe baskets with the harfangs if you aren't wearing ski boots? The harfang baskets are super light and made of a nylon strap, much lighter than the molded plastic petzl ones.

K Go wrote:

I believe they have 2 different toe bail options, and different harfang configurations come with different ones as standard. The harfang hybrid I got came with the wider toe bail for ski boots (plus separate toe baskets), but I think the harfang alpine hybrid comes with a narrower toe bail for mountaineering boots. You can buy them both separately now, as well as the toe baskets. I think originally they only shipped wire bails with the harfangs, but now give you baskets too.

Personally I only use toe bail wires for ski boots and ice climbing, and I prefer toe baskets otherwise. For example I used the irvis hybrid on my 3 season Salewa boots this year on eldorado and baker in WA with toe baskets and they felt rock solid. So maybe try toe baskets with the harfangs if you aren't wearing ski boots? The harfang baskets are super light and made of a nylon strap, much lighter than the molded plastic petzl ones.

Yes, the harfang baskets are what I’m speaking about being problematic.

I’ve had trouble with fitment on several pairs of boots. Aequilibrium Top, G2sm, and a couple other pair have been very tough to fit with them. They are a bit narrow and while they are lighter than the Petzl baskets, the petzls seem to fit more boots more easily. 

NateC wrote:

Yes, the harfang baskets are what I’m speaking about being problematic.

I’ve had trouble with fitment on several pairs of boots. Aequilibrium Top, G2sm, and a couple other pair have been very tough to fit with them. They are a bit narrow and while they are lighter than the Petzl baskets, the petzls seem to fit more boots more easily. 

Oh sorry, you did say semi auto, my bad. 

Hmm that's interesting. I don't have those boots but here is the harfang toe basket on my LS Nepal Cubes (size 46!). Seems to fit fine, but I haven't used them on mountain in this combo (I got the harfang for my ski boots). 

Also here is the blue ice and petzl baskets overlaid. They look like a very similar size. 

Just for fun, I tried to swap baskets between my harfang and irvis hybrid... And they both fit. The bent wire on the petzl basket is like 3mm wider, but the actual baskets seem to fit the same over my boot. Thanks for the idea, I'm going to leave the blue ice baskets on my irvis hybrid now for some free weight savings (35g petzl vs 26g blue ice baskets). 

Do your blue ice baskets look the same as mine? Not sure if they made different versions. 

As others said, the Harfang toe basket is meant for ski boots so yeah, its not going to fit well on g2sm and other mountaineering boots. You can easily seap a grivel or petzl front bail on it with a pair of pliers to fit a mountaineering boot, or put on the semiauto bails.