More Climbing Days vs. Longer Climbing Days

Hey crushers,

I'm curious to hear people's experience with training more days per week vs. training less days with longer sessions, with a fixed total volume. I've read a lot about the importance of rest days, but I've found that when I climb less days for longer sessions, my intensity and focus really start to drop off at the end of the session. On the other hand, if I climb three short gym sessions in a row I can try hard and stay focused for the full sessions.  

For example: 

Scenario 1) rest Monday, climb Tuesday-Thursday (all gym sessions about 2 hr), rest Friday, climb outdoors sat/sun

Scenario 2) rest Monday, climb Tuesday (3 hr gym session), rest Wednesday, climb Thursday (3 hr gym session), rest Friday, climb outdoors sat/sun

Gym sessions are a mix of endurance ropes, limit bouldering, limit ropes. For reference I climb 5.11 outside, boulder V5, climbing almost three years and never had any injuries or finger pain or anything like that.

Also, I'm sure there's a thread or article about this somewhere already but I couldn't find it (plenty about the importance of rest days and total volume, but not much about how to reach that total volume) but if you know of one plz link it.

Thanks for the input!

I would always choose scenario 2 over 1.

It would, of course, depend on what you do, and it is often hard to figure out if people actually do what they say they do, or just believe that they do it, but aren’t really...

For example, I find it hard to believe that, if you truly did limit bouldering on Tuesday, you would be able to climb hard on Wednesday and Thursday. I would definitely believe that you can do a mix of high/low days, climbing hard on Tue, easy/recovery climbing set in Wed, and then a harder climbing day on Thursday. 

But if your Tuesday gym session is 2 hrs long, and “a mixture of limit bouldering, endurance ropes, and limit ropes”, I don’t think you are doing either limit bouldering OR endurance. And what exactly is “limit ropes”? Is this working on a hard-for-you ropes project?

Basically, I find it hard to imagine that you can do your limit bouldering session in under two hours. Because you don’t just walk into the door and start limit bouldering. If you walk in, do a quick general non-climbing warmup, followed by 10-15 min of climbing warmup, then some technique drills/skills, and progressively harder bouldering, which is kinda how you should approach limit bouldering, you would be well into your 2nd hour by the time you are actually doing Limit Bouldering.

And two hours of roped climbing in a gym means what? Assuming you are alternating belays with your partner, tying/untying, walking from one climb to another, maybe waiting for a minute or two... say 10 min to tie in, climb, untie, pull the rope, walk over to another spot, flake the rope, tie in, set up belay, check... 10 min per pitch is a very decent gym speed, most people in the gym aren’t even doing that fast! If you add in the time to use the bathroom, drink some water, etc., they eat into your time fast.  
but if you are climbing a pitch every 10 min... that means that two hours equal a whopping 6 gym pitches of climbing for you and your partner? Some of them warmups, presumably? Yeah, I don’t think this counts as endurance climbing... sorry.

So, can you climb in a gym 3 days in a row, two hours each day? Sure! Is it optimal? I don’t think so. I think you are better off REALLY focusing on  making sure you really are doing a full value limit bouldering when you plan to do it. And really focusing on rope climbing when you are doing that one. And work on improving that attention span, lol. 3 hrs isn’t all that much. 

I would go for less sessions personally, but I suggest you experiment and find what works for you. Reminds me of Bill Ramsey. He's 60+? and he trains 6 hrs. at a time and then rest 3 days and he crushes! But, everyone's different...

It really depends on what you're training during those 3 days. 

We have 3 options for training sessions: 

1. Power
2. Power-Endurance
3. Endurance

It's not really feasible for most people to train pure power multiple days in a row, you really need a day or preferably 2 days between power sessions. You can do back to back power-endurance sessions and even triple up on endurance ones, but if you're training power multiple days in a row, you're working yourself into the ground (in my opinion). 

It looks like you're more of an all-rounder though, so if you truly believe you aren't made for longer sessions and are training power on day 1, power endurance on day 2, and endurance on day 3, then resting before outdoor sessions, I think you have a great training plan. 

-Will

Lena chita wrote:

I would always choose scenario 2 over 1.

It would, of course, depend on what you do, and it is often hard to figure out if people actually do what they say they do, or just believe that they do it, but aren’t really...

Thanks for the reply! I'll give a little more detail cuz i think my first post was unclear about the sessions...

 Tuesday - leading and TRing routes close to my limit, with warm ups etc i usually end up climbing 4 of these + 3 easier routes (focus on finding rests and climbing efficiently to save juice for cruxes)

Wednesday - limit bouldering, which yes, like you said means warm up etc. I'm usually trying my hardest about 45 min into the session (biking to gym helps warm up) which leaves a little over an hour to work hard boulders (focus on trying really really hard)

Thursday - all endurance laps, Climbing routes below my limit 2-4 times in a row, on these days i can usually get in 12-15 gym pitches (focus on technique, mileage)

Curious if this sounds more possible/if you still think resting the middle day would be preferable? 

Also, I'll add that the main reason for this question is covid gym protocols which means 2 hr sessions and a nearly empty gym, so zero waiting around but also a time limit on sessions.

Jaxon Stuhr wrote:

 Tuesday - leading and TRing routes close to my limit...

Wednesday - limit bouldering...

You might try switching these two days, a lot of folks say it's best to be fresh when training pure power

-Will

Jaxon Stuhr wrote:

Thanks for the reply! I'll give a little more detail cuz i think my first post was unclear about the sessions...

 Tuesday - leading and TRing routes close to my limit, with warm ups etc i usually end up climbing 4 of these + 3 easier routes (focus on finding rests and climbing efficiently to save juice for cruxes)

Wednesday - limit bouldering, which yes, like you said means warm up etc. I'm usually trying my hardest about 45 min into the session (biking to gym helps warm up) which leaves a little over an hour to work hard boulders (focus on trying really really hard)

Thursday - all endurance laps, Climbing routes below my limit 2-4 times in a row, on these days i can usually get in 12-15 gym pitches (focus on technique, mileage)

Curious if this sounds more possible/if you still think resting the middle day would be preferable? 

I would definitely put limit bouldering on Tuesday, when you are fresh, instead of Wednesday.

And I would change things up, depending on the season. E.g. when you are primarily bouldering outside on the weekend, I would do Tue/Thur limit bouldering, and skip Wednesday.

When you are transitioning to rope climbing, I would maybe do the Tuesday limit bouldering, and Thursday ropes. Or Wed/Thur ropes.

But it really, really depends on what your goals are. And what your weaknesses are.

You wouldn’t ask a question about whether you should do long runs on Tue/Thur, or short sprint intervals on Tue, followed by long run on Wednesday, without starting what your goal is for this whole running around plan.

Without it, the question of “do I run Tue/Wed/Thur, or just Tue/Thur for a bit longer, keeping total hours the same...” is kinda pointless, right?

Fair enough! All of my major goals are long free routes in Yosemite. That said, i see single pitch trad and sport climbing as a really good way to train for those, and i see bouldering (especially on granite) as a really good way to train for single pitch climbing. 

Cycling seasons honestly isn't something I'd thought much about but might be worth considering.

And thanks for the comments! I'll definitely try switching the bouldering and roped sessions.

Jaxon Stuhr wrote:

Fair enough! All of my major goals are long free routes in Yosemite. That said, i see single pitch trad and sport climbing as a really good way to train for those, and i see bouldering (especially on granite) as a really good way to train for single pitch climbing. 

Cycling seasons honestly isn't something I'd thought much about but might be worth considering.

And thanks for the comments! I'll definitely try switching the bouldering and roped sessions.

Sure, single-pitch climbing is useful to train for multipitch, and bouldering is useful to train for both.

But your goal is still way too vague and broad. Do you have a specific route in mind? Have you tried climbing any of them, maybe as a follow with someone stronger? What was the hardest part for you that you feel you need to train for? How hard is this route, vs the single pitch routes you have sent, and how many pitches of that grade are in this route?

If you are looking to do a 4 pitch 11b, vs 12pitch 12a, you would be doing different things, based on your stated starting point.

Your bouldering grade is already plenty high to do moves on 12a. But do you have stamina to do 10 pitches of 5.10+/5.11-? (This might be more relevant than “endurance”, IMO). Do you have the multipitch efficiency down, or is it part of what you need to work on? 

limit bouldering may not be what you need at all... but timed-interval stamina roped laps might be a lot more relevant. I dunno. 

My 2c is that you should do your limit bouldering on Tuesday. Rest Wednesday. And combine the Wed/Thurs session by doing a couple hard pitches and then doing your low end aerobic mileage. With a few exceptions, my experience is that the bouldering power will be far more useful on cruxy Yosemite pitches than will some kind of sustained endurance ability. I've never really encountered a "power endurance" type pitch on the routes I've done out there, the harder pitches tend to be boulder problem, good rest, repeat. Basically, if you have good bouldering power (relative to your grades) and good aerobic capacity and power, then you'll do well. If I could do anything to prepare for long granite climbs, it would be bouldering in a high altitude area with long hikes. 

Thanks for the comment xan, that makes a lot of sense, other than a couple sustained layback corners it's all short cruxy sections that I've climbed as well... I think the boulders in Tahoe will be a good training ground this spring and summer! 

Regarding gym bouldering, do you try to focus on a specific kind of problems? I can't think of many Yosemite pitches that involve steep jugs in a cave, but the power may still translate well...