soto stoves

Does anyone here use Soto brand stoves? I have a Soto Amicus, which is great in warmer temps, but am wondering if people use any other models in their alpine climbing and cold weather objectives?

Thanks

Really?? Ya’ll suckers for MSR or what? No one using Soto??

Easy fellow. Soto has great build quality, but much less available.

You have Sweden behind your name. Why not go Swedish?

A primus user.

What Race said. Also, it’s “y’all.”

Racechinees . wrote:

Easy fellow. Soto has great build quality, but much less available.

You have Sweden behind your name. Why not go Swedish?

A primus user.

Because cost. Even here, Primus and Optimus are spendy, usually worse than MSR. Also, MSR seems great, the reviews generally seem to favor MSR but some places are selling the discontinued Soto Muka at a good price. I like my Amicus, but its worthless for cold weather (-5 C and below). Basically, I’m most interested in either MSR (good price) or a reason to NOT get the very discounted Soto Muka... Primus is just spendy. 

Marc H wrote:

What Race said. Also, it’s “y’all.”

haha, thanks for the tip

Any gas cartridge stove without a pressure regulator or liquid feed/inverted canister option (Soto Amicus, Pocket Rocket 2, etc.) is going to suck in low temperatures. A cartridge top stove with a pressure regulator (Soto Windmaster, MSR Pocket Rocket Deluxe, MSR Windburner) will do better, but as the gas canister gets cold, the pressure is always going to drop, and if the canister gets cold enough the pressure inside the canister drops to where the gas inside the canister just won't leave the canister. So with or without the pressure regulator, the burn time of a cartridge will always get shorter as the cartridge gets colder. One solution is to use a gas cartridge stove that lets you invert the canister (MSR WindPro, etc.) With the canister inverted and supported above the burner, gas is going to flow out of the cartridge no matter how cold it gets.

Some of these reviews would make me hesitate to buy the Soto Muka at any price: https://www.rei.com/product/815135/soto-muka-liquid-fuel-stove#product-reviews

How easy is it to get white gas/Coleman fuel in Sweden, and how much does it cost? Theoretically the Muka will run on auto fuel, but my experience with other stoves is that auto fuel tends to produce a fair bit of smoke and soot. How do gas stations in Sweden feel about people rolling up and putting 1 liter or less of gasoline in a fuel bottle?

DeLa Cruce wrote:

I like my Amicus, but its worthless for cold weather (-5 C and below). 

What is fuel that you are using?
If temps are within a few degrees of the boiling point of prevalent gas in the mix, your stove is not going to work very well.

Canisters for backpacking typically contain propane mixed with either isobutane or "plain" butane (n-butane).  The boiling points (vaporization points) at sea level of each of these gases are as follows:

 Boiling Point 

n-butane    -0.5°C    31°F
isobutane -12°C 11°F
propane      -42°C   -44°F

When you blend the fuels together, your boiling point will be somewhere in between the boiling point of the various fuels.  Calculating the exact boiling point is not trivial.  Not only that, but the proportions of the fuel mix will change over time with an upright canister stove.  Why will the mix change over time?  If the canister is used in the normal, upright position, the propane will boil off at a faster rate than either n-butane or isobutane because if its higher vapor pressure.  Since the propane is boiling off faster, there will be less and less propane in the mix over time.  As the percentage that is propane declines, the boiling point rises. 

If you are willing to experiment and live dangerously -  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6HiTrgT-Dd0 

Thanks, yeah I already know WHY the canister stoves perform poorly in the cold. That’s why I’m asking about liquid fuel stoves. I don’t care about simmering. I want the least fussy, fastest snow melting/ water boiling machine available. Bonus points for light weight and smaller pack size. As an aside, what is all of your favorite pot for boiling water/melting snow? I am specifically looking for between 1.4 and 2 liters capacity, preferably aluminum without some stupid non stick coating. No heat exchanger either, and preferably short and wide vs tall and skinny. Also, since no one here seems to have used the Muka specifically, does anyone use the MSR Xgk and can weigh in? 

I've run a few liquid fuel stoves over the years, the Primus was better than the Optimus, a buddy has the Soto which seems to be problematic, the simmering is a joke. 

Claiming the Soto is the first stove that doesn't need pre-heating is an insult to ones intelligence, my trusty Coleman 533 never has either and isn't designed to be. The Coleman is what I use all the time, robust, starts well, simmers and doesn't need a stupid remote bottle, hose etc. I live with the weight ( 903g ready to go).

Fuel wise I use normal gasoline, panel wipe, white spirit, Aspen fuel, cleaning benzine and whatever is available, I've never actually used Coleman fuel. If you run with normal gas it's worth running something cleaner through every few weeks to help clean the vaporisor tube out.

DeLa Cruce wrote: Also, since no one here seems to have used the Muka specifically, does anyone use the MSR Xgk and can weigh in? 

I've used an older version of the XGK, it definitely meets your requirements for a fast snow melting machine. It's incredibly loud, though, and forget the bonus points for light and compact. It's also field maintainable, and MSR sells a separate pump for extreme cold conditions. MSR sells a maintenance kit and a repair kit, which you will need sooner or later. The various gaskets and O-rings in the pump don't last forever, and you'll need to replace them from time to time.

Jim Titt wrote:

I've run a few liquid fuel stoves over the years, the Primus was better than the Optimus, a buddy has the Soto which seems to be problematic, the simmering is a joke. 

Claiming the Soto is the first stove that doesn't need pre-heating is an insult to ones intelligence, my trusty Coleman 533 never has either and isn't designed to be. The Coleman is what I use all the time, robust, starts well, simmers and doesn't need a stupid remote bottle, hose etc. I live with the weight ( 903g ready to go).

Fuel wise I use normal gasoline, panel wipe, white spirit, Aspen fuel, cleaning benzine and whatever is available, I've never actually used Coleman fuel. If you run with normal gas it's worth running something cleaner through every few weeks to help clean the vaporisor tube out.

903 grams yeah no thanks. I’d end up throwing that $hit off the side of a cliff. 

Pay your money make your choice. I prefer reliable, serviceable and trouble-free stoves that start every time and don't collapse under the weight of the pan. And that has a controllable flame. The extra 430gr doesn't bother me much, when it does I use a different stove.

The copper strip hack shown above in the YouTube video is an easy and simple way to deal with gas canisters in cold temps. Reliable, simple....

Bergfreunde had the older version of the Primus omnifuel's for 40-50% off for on and off periods for like the last two years. It's all about timing. Use a cashback feature to get another 7% off. I know, because I got two of them. Cheaper than an MSR wisperlight and a primus feel way better build. 

If you are cheap, at least know the tricks. Also, the primus maintenance kits are available in any store that sells primus, bit plus.