BD #7 & #8 vs Trango Big Bro's

So I got spanked on Pratt's Crack in Pine Creek Canyon this past weekend.  If you haven't been, it's a classic 5.9 Offwidth, an absolutely stunning climb.  There is a section about halfway up where you can no longer walk a BD #6 (the lobes are at MAXIMUM tipped out), and you have to just go for it, OR if you had a BD #7 or #8 you can sew it up nicely.  Since I didn't have much gear below my sketchy tipped out #6, I asked for a take and french free'd one move (yeah, go ahead and shame me).  

This has me thinking about investing into some wide gear for specific climbs like Pratt's Crack.  

Have any of you had experience with both Big Bro's and now the big cams from BD?  From what I read, the Big Bro's are difficult to place and finicky with how parallel the crack is.  Whereas a SLCD is a bit more forgiving there.  

Anyone end up going to a BD #7/8 from a Big Bro and enjoyed the switch? 

Big cams aren't "a bit more forgiving" than BB's; they are WAY, WAY easier and more versatile.

It would be entertaining to watch someone try to walk a Big Bro.  How did you french free if you didn’t have the gear for that section?  Anyways, Mike answered the question...they’re better in every way EXCEPT weight/bulk.

Ted Pinson wrote:

It would be entertaining to watch someone try to walk a Big Bro.  How did you french free if you didn’t have the gear for that section?  Anyways, Mike answered the question...they’re better in every way EXCEPT weight/bulk.

I pulled on the super tipped out cam to get to the next good foot, which was about at my neck, the cam was about at my chest.  Once I got through that body length section (with the help of pulling on that cam) the climbing eases off quite a bit, and some smaller cracks appear where you can place finger size stuff. 

The tipped out #6 was good enough to pull on, but I definitely would not want to fall on it, especially since I was runout a good bit below that cam.  

Ted Pinson wrote:

It would be entertaining to watch someone try to walk a Big Bro.  How did you french free if you didn’t have the gear for that section?  Anyways, Mike answered the question...they’re better in every way EXCEPT weight/bulk.

The big bro is a lot lighter because you'll never bother racking it :)

I had a blue big bro for years and even though I climb a decent amount of OW I only placed it once (second pitch of "yin-yang", maybe). I actually climbed Pratt's Crack just to use it but still didn't bother placing it because there was a bunch of random small gear inside the crack and the walls seemed too uneven for it sit securely. 

I borrowed a #7 for a climb this fall and it was amazing but it was also the first time I've "needed" that big of a cam in many years of climbing in the valley. Definitely not essential gear.

How alpine was Pratt's? 

i just ordered a #8.  thank you for your comments!  seems like the big bros are a lot less useful than a cam.  

pratt’s is about 10ft shorter right now because of the snow.  lol. it was pleasant to climb though.

my belayer is clipped into the second bolt of whatever that bolted line is to the left of pratt’s.   

the routes on the opposite side of the canyon that get sun are snow free.

I have used big bros a handful of times and they are quite finicky to place.  I have used them in vedawoo, lumpy ridge and the valley.  Mostly free and a couple of times aiding.  I would much prefer a cam if I had one that big.

We were climbing on the sunny side watching you all on Pratt's, looked like a good time! ;)

If you want a cheaper alternative than buying a #7 or #8, you can always try the #6 + wooden blocks method (see here: https://www.mountainproject.com/forum/topic/111237558/6-camalot-with-wood-blocks-zip-tied-to-it)... 

I have the green and blue big bro and use them occasionally. The green big bro caught me with a legitimate lead fell once and held. They are much more tricky to place than cams, but it gets easier with practice. You can't walk them. In my opinion, they are a good option for climbs with a not-too-long section that are too wide for a #6, where you can place it from a good stance and leave it there. Definitely lighter than big cams.

Can’t pass an opportunity to spray that I touched the holds on Pratt’s
  

My buddy and I were on it a couple of years back with two 6s and one red Merlin (bd7 size) and that felt relatively chill with some OW technique and bumping the Merlin until back into easier size 6 climbing.

We saw others just taking the big runout with only having up to 6, and that looked less chill.

Big bros seem to be relegated to helping ropes not go into cracks now. 

Awesome that we have access to BD and Merlin mega cams. Runout podcast did a funny bit, last year I think, about offwidths and these new cams, saying we should add a new rating to a climb like Pratt’s. It goes at 5.9pg or 5.9r, unless you have the fancy new large cams, in which case it goes at 5.9$

Ben Horowitz wrote:

We were climbing on the sunny side watching you all on Pratt's, looked like a good time! ;)

If you want a cheaper alternative than buying a #7 or #8, you can always try the #6 + wooden blocks method (see here: https://www.mountainproject.com/forum/topic/111237558/6-camalot-with-wood-blocks-zip-tied-to-it)... 

we kept looking over at the other snow free side with jealousy.  it looked nice and toasty there.  were you the ones on the multipitch?  

the wood blocks looks super sketch!!  lol

We were on the single pitch sport climbs near the river crossing. 

There was another picture I was looking for of someone using a random book as a spacer to get there cam to fit the crack, but sadly couldn't find that one :P

Just curious what did you take on?

If the cam is super sketchy tipped out and your next gear is way below, it's a tough call whether to weight the gear or climb and hope you don't fall.

Crotch Robbins wrote:

Just curious what did you take on?

If the cam is super sketchy tipped out and your next gear is way below, it's a tough call whether to weight the gear or climb and hope you don't fall.

i took/french’ed on the super tipped out #6.  

at the placement, the crack is pretty wide and you’re secure.  it is right AT this spot where you gotta do some climbing above that cam and you’re not so secure.  

when you take on the tipped out cam, you can just kind of rest inside the crack, you don’t need to fully weight the cam if you don’t want to.

for me, this one not so protected move was the crux of the climb.  

BryanOC wrote:

I pulled on the super tipped out cam to get to the next good foot, which was about at my neck, the cam was about at my chest.  Once I got through that body length section (with the help of pulling on that cam) the climbing eases off quite a bit, and some smaller cracks appear where you can place finger size stuff. 

The tipped out #6 was good enough to pull on, but I definitely would not want to fall on it, especially since I was runout a good bit below that cam.  

Sounds delightful!

i have the feeling that the #7 and #8 will deform easily on a fall. 

They remove so much material !!

Am i wrong ?

curvenut wrote:

i have the feeling that the #7 and #8 will deform easily on a fall. 

They remove so much material !!

Am i wrong ?

the #8 is their weakest C4 cam at 5kn (same as a #0 or 0.1 Z4).  the #7 is the same strength as the smallest 0.3 cam, at 8kn.  

while it is not as burly as a #3 cam at 12kn, it sure is a hell of a lot better than no protection.

Ratings don't tell you everything:
https://www.blackdiamondequipment.com/en_US/stories/experience-story-qc-lab-big-cams

Generally with cams that big people are walking them and TRing themselves instead of dumping them and climbing by, otherwise you'd need to carry a whole lot more of them, so typically you aren't taking monster lead whippers onto them. Even with #5's and #6's on longer OW in the creek I don't think I've ever placed more than 2, although I did carry 3x #5's once and forgot to put in the 3rd (just for a don't-deck backup in case I did something weird while bumping the other 2 for a long section).