Anybody tried these ? Mammut Nordwand 6000 ice boots

https://www.mammut.com/us/en/p/3010-01060-00520/nordwand-6000-high/

Just saw these new double boots hit the stores, no info/reviews online.  Same weight as Scarpa 6000 but a bit cheaper and sure look sleeker.  Way slimmed down from their last double boot, Nordwand 2.1.  Curious about fit & warmth, considering for AK range.  Also complicated by the fact Sportiva just re-did / Evo'd their G2 SM.  Thanks!

I have not tried these but in the past I have not been a fan of the Boa fit system. But that was probably 5 years ago.  My complaint with it was limited range. That is think about is being -20 and trying to get your foot in to the boot while in a tent before going out into the elements and not being able to easily slide your foot into the boot.

I picked up a pair 2 weeks ago and have only 2 days on them so far. I also bought them for an AK trip. In comparison to my Phantom Tech (2018 generation), they fit a touch wider in the forefoot and heel but I'm able to get a good secure fit due to the BOA. They also run big and I downsized 1/2 size from my phantom tech (Sz 42) to the 41 2/3 or whatever the Mammut size worked out to. Basically my Scarpa is a 9 and these are an 8.5. 

The quality of the build seems excellent, and the warmth is notable. My feet run very cold from being damaged every winter working in ski boots. My feet were warm in low teens to single digit temps while the rest of me was getting cold, and my hands froze. That was a totally different experience than what I'm used to in 20 years of climbing ice. 

They are very light and only weigh 40+ grams per boot more than my Phantom Techs. While they are slightly bulkier than my Phantom Techs they are lower in bulk than any other double boot I've ever owned and my climbing ability was unaffected in comparison with my Phantom Techs. 

I hope that answers some questions. If you have more, feel free to fire away and I'll do what I can to answer. Hopefully with some more climbing days on them soon. 

I love the new Boa system.

I have Boas on my AT ski boots.  I have Boas on my fly fishing boots.  

I can't stand laces.  You lace them up tight, and by the 3rd pitch of whatever you're on, they're loose.  Boas stay at whatever tightness you set them at.  

These may be the boots I've been wanting for many years now (assuming they fit my wide, high-volume Fred Flintstone feet.)  

I should have added more about the BOA in my comments. 

I agree with Kai. I have had BOA systems on my ski boots for the last 7 years. I worked in an extremely busy ski touring shop where we sold 1000's of boots with BOAs each season as well. I've seen BOAs fail, but honestly it's a lot less frequently than laces failing and BOA is incredible about standing behind their stuff. 

I really like the BOA system on these boots. It's 2 BOAs per boot. One for the cuff and one for the lower. It was really nice to snug the lower and keep the cuff loose for the approach, and then tighten everything down before climbing. I hate having to re-tie my phantom techs multiple times during a day because of the laces streching, relaxing, or coming untied. The Phantom Tech is an excellent boot, but these may actually come to be my first choice soon. 

It's more the field repair issue with the Boas. I watch the YouTube video, and I don't want to do that in the outdoors. Laces I can deal with. 

Just another example of "horses for courses" but I've never tied my Phantom Techs twice in a day. I'm weak though so it probably doesn't matter. 

Those boots look legit and Mammut don't make junk. I wouldn't hesitate to bring em to AK if they fit you. 

I'm an owner of the Nordwand 2.1 and have recently tried the Mammut 6000 amongst a number of other boots (Scarpa 6000, Asolo Mont Blanc, G2SM, Lowa 6000). At some point I'll get around to doing a full post about fit / quality. I wear 11.5 in street shoes and wear an 11.5 in Mammut. According to foot scans, my feet are normal width with high arches. Other brands are a nightmare for me. Of all the listed boots, Mammut seems to have a slightly wider toe box, which works well with my foot. Kai -- check these boots out. I've heard similar comments about people downsizing in Mammut. In addition, the brand really seems to have it dialed on minimizing heel lift. 

People have mentioned the boas, but there's a couple other distinct differences. First, the liner is more like a sock as opposed to your standard ski boot liner. This is a similar approach to the Nordwand Knit High GTX. Unlike other liners, you don't put it on your foot first before inserting into the boot. Doing it the "normal way" you will struggle immensely. Doing it the "correct" way and your foot slides in very, very easily. Conceptually cool idea, but I found two negatives with the liner -- restrictive (tight on foot, more form fitting) & pretty tough to get in & out (ok fine, only doing it at the end & beginning of the day). On the positive side, you can easily put in a custom insole and not decrease the amount of volume (something I hate about many boots). While I cannot 100% confirm, I believe the liners are heatable.

Other things you'll notice. 

• This boot is impressively light, lighter than the Phantom Tech, but seems to be a bit more bulkier. Trudging around the house, it seemed like I had a different gait compared to other boots. Possibly tied to below?
• Unlike many boots, the sole isn't one large piece running from ankle to toe. Imagine weight saving? There is a gap in the middle where your arch is (you can see it in the picture). In the long run I wonder about the durability of this section. The good news is Mammut warranty is excellent and the boot is resoleable.
• Zipper or gaiter is well made. Won't have an issue like the crap you find on the Scarpas.
• Super warm. Your feet will roast, in a good way.
• Zero concern about the boas. I've been really careless with the Nordwands.

So what did I decide? I'm sticking with my Nordwand 2.1s; going to so far to order a backup pair. I like the fact that the Nordwands have an ankle strap, boa, and drawcord lacing system. I can customize a bit more than the BOA. Keep in mind, I broke my left pinky toe placing ice hockey many years ago so I'm particular. If I was ice climbing, I'd confidently recommend the 6000s. Good technical fit. In general, for those with a slightly wider foot, your best bet is the Mammut. 

Thanks Nate, that's super helpful, especially since my current boots are 2018 Phantom Tech in a 42, ha!  I love them and don't intend to replace, but rather add a heavier/warmer double boot to the quiver...basically Scarpa 6000 or Sportiva G2.  But if the Mammut's climb ok and are only 40g heavier per booth than 2018 Phantom Tech, that's a lot of overlap to justify owning both (at my budget).  BUT, if they're as warm as the previously mentioned doubles, well then shoot I'll take it.  Your thoughts?  Your story would indicate their a good bit warmer than your phantom techs, which is a good starting point.  Thanks again

check out the youtube video on this boot

Thanks for the review Nick. I’ll be looking for a double boot next winter season and formerly had the phantom 6000 in mind. This is a compelling case for mammut’s offering as a perhaps better preforming boot on hard technical stuff in the double boot category.

Brett B wrote:

Thanks for the review Nick. I’ll be looking for a double boot next winter season and formerly had the phantom 6000 in mind. This is a compelling case for mammut’s offering as a perhaps better preforming boot on hard technical stuff in the double boot category.

Take it with a grain of salt, everyone's foot is different & everyone's got an opinion. The Phantom 6000 made me angry. Having tried the boots on two separate occasions, the lacing system really stood out as a major deficiency. Its pitiful. What am I supposed to do with this pulley system that seems to defy logic? The strap is great, even better than the Mammut, but despite this I had massive heel lift. I'm also not a big fan of the gaiter zipper system. I couldn't understand the advantage of it wrapping around the leg. Sure, better than going straight up and down, but why not have it terminate on one side? Lastly and the biggest deal breaker was the fit. I found the toe box to start curving really early. Technically my feet are a 10.6 (left) and 10.2 (right) and a size 46 (apparently a 12) would not work for me.

DeLa Cruce wrote:

check out the youtube video on this boot

This guy also gives a good review if you are looking for more than one opinion. 

For those that are looking to buy, I ordered from Vertical Addiction up in Alberta. Always for plugging the little guys.

For the folks who have tried this, any input on how they fit compared to G2s and Phantom 6000s? 

Nick U wrote:

This guy also gives a good review if you are looking for more than one opinion. 

For those that are looking to buy, I ordered from Vertical Addiction up in Alberta. Always for plugging the little guys.

shipping to US from CA takes 3-4 weeks, and return shipping is expensive.  Hoping that a US company gets these in at some point in the near future.  

Alpenglow seems to have a couple sizes.

Kai Larson wrote:

shipping to US from CA takes 3-4 weeks, and return shipping is expensive.  Hoping that a US company gets these in at some point in the near future.  

Got mine in a week. Returns would be tricky. Just for the hell of it, I'm going to take both boots out on Rainier next week (assuming my foot heals, damnit). If for some reason the 6000 doesn't work out, I'll have a pair of 11.5s floating around.

Nick U wrote:

Got mine in a week. Returns would be tricky. Just for the hell of it, I'm going to take both boots out on Rainier next week (assuming my foot heals, damnit). If for some reason the 6000 doesn't work out, I'll have a pair of 11.5s floating around.

If I can't find the boots stateside, I will give them a try.  

Kai Larson wrote:

If I can't find the boots stateside, I will give them a try.  

Sounds like we have similar (wide, high volume) feet. I'm still looking for boots that fit me well. Please give us your opinion on these if you manage to get a pair.

I found a pair of these stateside.  Just one pair, but in size 10.5/44, which is generally what I wear on my left foot.  (My right foot is typically a half to full size larger.)  It was the only pair they had, so the bad news is that I'm going to have to buy a pair for my right foot somewhere else.  

Good news is that they were on clearance, so I saved $200.

They are BY FAR the most difficult boots to put on my foot that I have ever experienced.  I remember the struggle of trying to get my children's feet into their ski boots when they were small.  These boots made that challenge seem easy by comparison.  

At one point I was questioning whether it was even possible.  Putting my foot into the boot seemed like it might require breaking the laws of physics.  

After a lot of grunting and sweating and pulling and straining, I finally got my foot into the boot.  Tightened down the Boas, and am wearing the boot around the house right now.  So far, it feels really comfortable.  The heel feels locked in place, and the overall fit is excellent.  The boot is holding my foot where it should be, without any undue pressure at any one spot.  The dual BOAs seem to be doing their job.   I'd like to go for a walk with them, but sadly, I've just got the one boot, so I'm pretty limited on serious fit testing.  

However, I am optimistic enough that I'm going to order a pair for my right foot too.  These may be the boots I have been wanting.    

Kai, what made putting them on such a PIA ?

DeLa Cruce wrote:

Kai, what made putting them on such a PIA ?

Even with the Boas completely undone and loosened, the outer boot doesn't open very wide.  

Luckily, I read Nick U's post above and didn't try to put my foot in the liner first and then slide the foot and liner into the shell.  That would have provided even more frustration.  

I wear thicker merino socks, and the interior of the liner is kind of soft and comfy, so there is more friction that you would encounter when sliding your stockinged foot into a boot like the Phantom 6000, for example, which has a more slick surface on the interior of the inner boot.  

Getting my foot in felt like trying to put on a very close fitting, very stiff sock.    

I figure I will get better at it, and it's possible I'm doing it wrong, but for me at least, they're pretty hard to get on.