Beal Opera (8.5mm) vs Mammut Serenity (8.7mm) ?

Has anyone used either or both of these ropes? How do you like it? If you've used both, how do they compare with each other?

Edit: Thanks everyone who replied to this post. I really appreciate your input!

I have both and use them just about as much as each other (Serenity in 60m and Opera in 50m).

The Serenity handles extremely well, it’s truly a pleasure to climb with. The Opera is far stiffer and harder to manage, the handling is definitely a trade-off for the weight. Hard to argue with the fact that it is the lightest single rope on the market though. 

For me, the weight different between the Opera and the Serenity is minimal enough that if I had to choose one, I’d choose the Serenity. However, I believe they both have a place in the world and choosing between them would really be dependent on what you are looking for.  

I bought an 80m serenity on sale for 50% off. I've mostly been using it for single pitch cragging, which is probably not the primary intended use. Still, the durability is pretty bad. The sheath is pretty thin, and about every third or fourth time out I am either switching ends or cutting them off. If projecting something on worn draws or with a heavier partner, the end may be shredded after a single session. And I am really not the type who cuts prematurely, my friends often insist I cut the rope when they tie in. While the rope handles nicely, durability is exceptionally bad. 

I can't imagine the Beal opera is much better though, especially since Beal ropes are typically thinner for the same diameter since Mammut measure diameter under tension afaik. I'm not buying a sub 9mm rope again.

Pino Pepino wrote:

I bought an 80m serenity on sale for 50% off. I've mostly been using it for single pitch cragging, which is probably not the primary intended use. Still, the durability is pretty bad. The sheath is pretty thin, and about every third or fourth time out I am either switching ends or cutting them off. If projecting something on worn draws or with a heavier partner, the end may be shredded after a single session. And I am really not the type who cuts prematurely, my friends often insist I cut the rope when they tie in. While the rope handles nicely, durability is exceptionally bad. 

I can't imagine the Beal opera is much better though, especially since Beal ropes are typically thinner for the same diameter since Mammut measure diameter under tension afaik. I'm not buying a sub 9mm rope again.

Are you trolling?

Mammut is very clear that this rope is to save your life, not to TR, project on, or repeatedly fall on. Mine comes out for redpointing, multi-pitch, and alpine.

"Probably not the intended use" is a massive understatement on your part. Your "review" reads like someone complaining that a Corvette got banged up on a Jeep trail. Why did you even post it?

Interesting, I've had opposite experiences of both above posters. Zero problems on durability for either rope, but then again I don't tend to fall (much). My opera is pretty soft and arguably floppy, though still structurally just fine, no flat spots, etc. Absolutely zero fraying to it, despite the fact that I use it a ton on moderate stuff (I treat my sh** nicely though).

*my* Serenity is def stiffer than my opera, though I would certainly describe it as buttery smooth - that said, it feels much thicker than 8.7 (reading that mammut measures diameter under tension may explain that). Certainly locks a bit better than the opera, for obvious reasons. I've simul-rapped on both ropes, no problem. Honestly, either rope is great, and neither rope is one you really want to be *regularly* falling on, that seems to be a silly use of a perfectly good rope whose intended purpose is to save you weight for long approaches and long(er) routes. Like Helge, I scored a long serenity for cheap, and I'd do it again in a heartbeat... 

Ive been using my Opera since 2016 on sport, alpine rock, mixed, and waterfall ice. I absolutely love it. 

Christian Hesch wrote:

Interesting, I've had opposite experiences of both above posters. Zero problems on durability for either rope, but then again I don't tend to fall (much). My opera is pretty soft and arguably floppy, though still structurally just fine, no flat spots, etc. Absolutely zero fraying to it, despite the fact that I use it a ton on moderate stuff (I treat my sh** nicely though).

*my* Serenity is def stiffer than my opera, though I would certainly describe it as buttery smooth - that said, it feels much thicker than 8.7 (reading that mammut measures diameter under tension may explain that). Certainly locks a bit better than the opera, for obvious reasons. I've simul-rapped on both ropes, no problem. Honestly, either rope is great, and neither rope is one you really want to be *regularly* falling on, that seems to be a silly use of a perfectly good rope whose intended purpose is to save you weight for long approaches and long(er) routes. Like Helge, I scored a long serenity for cheap, and I'd do it again in a heartbeat... 

How long have you had the Opera? I’ve definitely noticed it softening up over the year since I bought it, maybe mine has more to go.

Maybe I should just take it top roping for a few days

Robert S wrote:

Are you trolling?

Mammut is very clear that this rope is to save your life, not to TR, project on, or repeatedly fall on. Mine comes out for redpointing, multi-pitch, and alpine.

"Probably not the intended use" is a massive understatement on your part. Your "review" reads like someone complaining that a Corvette got banged up on a Jeep trail. Why did you even post it?

Fair enough. Not trolling, I think I can make a qualified statement even if I did abuse the rope a bit. I just bought the rope because it was cheap for an 80m rope. There are a couple of long routes I wanted to do and I needed a new 80m. This was the only use I had for it. I then just ended up using it for most of my climbing as the Infinity I bought previously got too short for some of the crags around here.

I didn't expect the durability to be great, but I didn't expect it to be that bad either, that's why I posted. It was just used for climbing warm ups then projecting/redpointing with regular falls. The rope is literally no different from a thin half rope - my friends genesis actually feels more solid. There's a reason it is also certified as a half rope. I climb multi pitch with doubles, and I would not feel 100% comfortable with just this as a single rope in the alpine.

In short, unless you really want a dedicated repoint rope to carry around, I think there is no point in buying this rope. If you are considering a light 80m rope to climb long pitches, maybe for a trip, you will get substantially more use out of a 9mm-9.5mm rope. Buying a lightweight rope for short pitches isn't necessary, and for long pitches the rope needs some durability, because once you start cutting you can't climb them anymore. Most people who are not professionals climbing 5.14+ don't bother carrying two 80m ropes.

I’ve owned a serenity since 2016. One spot could use a trimming, but otherwise it’s still in great shape. I’ve used other serenities and had good experience with them also. I find durability is plenty good, but I have never fallen on it that I can recall. Used throughout the alpine in Washington, the Sierras, and a ton as a single rope for red rock multipitch.

I’ve used the opera a handful of times, most recently my buddy’s 80. It feels thinner by a good margin, is only slightly stiffer, and handling through a Gri Gri is perfectly good.

I would choose a serenity for Mammut’s consistency in durability and handling. And the thickness would make me feel a hair mentally safer over the opera.

I like them both though. 

Given the responses, I want to stress that my use may not be representative, so feel free to disregard it. My climbing involves regular falls and I rarely get more than two years of use out of a rope.

Helge, I think you were clear in your initial explanation, no apology necessary. I'd fall on the serenity, but def not regularly. I'd fall on the opera, but *only* if i had to. I would never take an opera on a big wall or anything past 5.9, personally, but I'd happily take the serenity into 5.10 or harder. To the OP, I'd go w. the serenity, just find one on a killer deal and snatch it. I think I paid 170 for my 80m, which I thought was more than fair. If you can find a 60m for anywhere close to 150, I'd snag that. Heck, tell me about it and I'll buy one too!

Chris, I've done a fair number of pitches on it but never anything beyond 5.9. Guessing 100-125 pitches on it, probably an equal number of rappels. Keep in mind that mine is the basic dry treatment, not the "double dry cover" or whatever they call the fancy-schmancy dry treatment.

one last duplicate comment for the OP, Alex is 100% correct on the inspiration factor. I tie in to the opera and i *know* I don't want to fall, it's fuggin thiiiiiiiin. I tie into the serenity and (for me) it feels like a big, burly rope, so I don't worry whether I fall (i still don't want to, but at least I don't worry about it). Go w/ the serenity, you won't be disappointed.

Ah, the dry treatment may be the difference.  

Also adding to my original comment- I usually use my Opera on terrain where there is mostly snow, moderate ice, and rime. When rock is involved in a meaningful way, I use the Serenity.

Christian Hesch wrote:

Helge, I think you were clear in your initial explanation, no apology necessary. I'd fall on the serenity, but def not regularly. I'd fall on the opera, but *only* if i had to. I would never take an opera on a big wall or anything past 5.9, personally, but I'd happily take the serenity into 5.10 or harder. To the OP, I'd go w. the serenity, just find one on a killer deal and snatch it. I think I paid 170 for my 80m, which I thought was more than fair. If you can find a 60m for anywhere close to 150, I'd snag that. Heck, tell me about it and I'll buy one too!

Chris, I've done a fair number of pitches on it but never anything beyond 5.9. Guessing 100-125 pitches on it, probably an equal number of rappels. Keep in mind that mine if the basic dry treatment, not the "double dry cover" or whatever they call the fancy-schmancy dry treatment.

one last duplicate comment for the OP, Alex is 100% correct on the inspiration factor. I tie in to the opera and i *know* I don't want to fall, it's fuggin thiiiiiiiin. I tie into the serenity and (for me) it feels like a big, burly rope, so I don't worry whether I fall (i still don't want to, but at least I don't worry about it). Go w/ the serenity, you won't be disappointed.

As a relatively small and light weight woman I'm less worried about the thinness of the rope. Both these ropes are rated 17-18 UIAA falls with 55 kg on one rope. Having said that, without being able to have the actual rope in front of me and compare them side by side, it's just very hard to really grasp the difference and the inspiration factor. 

I'm looking for a light weight rope specifically for red pointing long routes, we have local routes that are 35+ meters long and a 70 meter rope with stretch would barely get you down. To me the weight of the rope plus friction really makes a difference especially towards the end of the route. I'm not looking to project stuff on these ropes, I'd project on a thicker rope and only use these when I feel ready to send.

If I can find a 50% off deal like some of you guys mentioned above I'd get whichever one of these ropes that has the discount   

If I may make a suggestion to help with rope drag - I came across a fellow using quickdraws equipped with DMM Revolver carabiners on the rope end. I thought it was gimmicky at first, but he let me try the route his draws were hung on and let me tell you. It made a HUGE difference in how easily the rope flowed. It would also lend itself to softer catches and a longer life of rope.

It’s a bit of an investment as it’s not cheap, but it’s certainly worth considering.

Again, I would go with the serenity for a longer life span of rope, but the Beal does weigh less overall. Handling is similar. 

Chris C wrote:

Ah, the dry treatment may be the difference.  

Also adding to my original comment- I usually use my Opera on terrain where there is mostly snow, ice, and rime. When rock is involved in a meaningful way, I use the Serenity.

What's the reason for using Opera only for snow and ice but not rock?

Alex Fletcher wrote:

If I may make a suggestion to help with rope drag - I came across a fellow using quickdraws equipped with DMM Revolver carabiners on the rope end. I thought it was gimmicky at first, but he let me try the route his draws were hung on and let me tell you. It made a HUGE difference in how easily the rope flowed. It would also lend itself to softer catches and a longer life of rope.

It’s a bit of an investment as it’s not cheap, but it’s certainly worth considering.

Again, I would go with the serenity for a longer life span of rope, but the Beal does weigh less overall. Handling is similar. 

That's an interesting idea! I'l also think about this, it does sound more expensive though. 

If you're really set on either of these, I'd go with the more durable one as you'll get more use out of it even if you only use it for redpointing. Otherwise a Beal joker is only 2g/m more than the serenity, and more durable. For reference, I'm about 62kg, my main climbing partner is about 55.

Liyuan Hao wrote:

What's the reason for using Opera only for snow and ice but not rock?

The Opera is fair bit thinner and more wirey (my one is, at least), so it is just a bit more annoying to use if there is consistent pitching and is slightly less confidence inspiring.  Doesn't apply to you- I also have it in 50m, which isn't practical if there are fixed anchors.   Maybe the best way for me to describe it without overcomplicating life is that the Opera feels like climbing on a single strand of a half rope that happens to be triple rated, while the Serenity feels like a skinny single. 

I think if you are able to feel them in person that could be really helpful.  I think REI may stock both of them, the Serenity has been rebranded btw.

Liyuan Hao wrote:

As a relatively small and light weight woman I'm less worried about the thinness of the rope. Both these ropes are rated 17-18 UIAA falls with 55 kg on one rope. Having said that, without being able to have the actual rope in front of me and compare them side by side, it's just very hard to really grasp the difference and the inspiration factor. 

I'm looking for a light weight rope specifically for red pointing long routes, we have local routes that are 35+ meters long and a 70 meter rope with stretch would barely get you down. To me the weight of the rope plus friction really makes a difference especially towards the end of the route. I'm not looking to project stuff on these ropes, I'd project on a thicker rope and only use these when I feel ready to send. 

If I can find a 50% off deal like some of you guys mentioned above I'd get whichever one of these ropes that has the discount   

Because a “half rope” is tested as a single strand while using a 55kg weight, you, if you weigh less than 55kg, could theoretically use any half rope for leading on a single strand. It doesn’t have to be rated as a single rope.  Thin ropes are more susceptible to cutting by the rock and general wear and tear, however, so using a thicker “half rope” that has a high (~40%) sheath percentage would improve cut resistance and durability. Such a thicker “half rope” would be more durable than a Serenity or Opera, each of which has a lower sheath percentage. Btw “dry treatment” improves the durability of any rope. And you must use a belay/rappel device intended for thin ropes. I have used the Edelrid Microjul extensively, and I like it, even for belaying the leader. 

Chris C wrote:

The Opera is fair bit thinner and more wirey (my one is, at least), so it is just a bit more annoying to use if there is consistent pitching and is slightly less confidence inspiring.  Doesn't apply to you- I also have it in 50m, which isn't practical if there are fixed anchors.   Maybe the best way for me to describe it without overcomplicating life is that the Opera feels like climbing on a single strand of a half rope that happens to be triple rated, while the Serenity feels like a skinny single. 

I think if you are able to feel them in person that could be really helpful.  I think REI may stock both of them, the Serenity has been rebranded btw.

Unfortunately my local REI don't currently carry any of these ropes in stock. I'd have to actually order them to see them. I didn't realize Serenity was rebranded, is the Alpine Sender Dry 8.7mm the rebranded one?

Also, I get the psychological aspect of confidence inspiring - you see a thicker rope you instinctively tend to trust it more. But both these two ropes are rated 5 UIAA falls as a single rope, 17-18 as a half rope, and as twin rope the Serenity is rated 20+ while the Opera is rated 25+. So simply from this one metric these ropes are neck and neck with each other. 

George Bracksieck wrote:

Because a “half rope” is tested as a single strand while using a 55kg weight, you, if you weigh less than 55kg, could theoretically use any half rope for leading on a single strand. It doesn’t have to be rated as a single rope.  Thin ropes are more susceptible to cutting by the rock and general wear and tear, however, so using a thicker “half rope” that has a high (~40%) sheath percentage would improve cut resistance and durability. Such a thicker “half rope” would be more durable than a Serenity or Opera, each of which has a lower sheath percentage. Btw “dry treatment” improves the durability of any rope. And you must use a belay/rappel device intended for thin ropes. I have used the Edelrid Microjul extensively, and I like it, even for belaying the leader. 

Yeah that's kinda what I thought too, although it does give me peace of mind knowing that the rope I'm using is actually rated as a Single rope (passing all minimum Single rope requirements). Do you have any recommendation for a half rope that's as light as these but thicker?