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North Machines vs BD Viper
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Anyone have an opinion on what would climb <=WI4 better? I currently climb on Vipers, but got to hold a North Machine in a store and liked the balance a lot. Trying to get an idea if trying to swap tools would be worth it. |
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Your Vipers came with the thick alpine pick. Switch to the natural ice pick which is thinner and will give you easier sticks. The Viper has a better pommel and a trigger rest. It's not the tool holding you back. |
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Vipers are a garbage ice tool IMO |
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Possibly? I've got the vipers also -- and could do better -- but I'd label it somewhere around 2% the tool holding me back, and 98% my mind / technique / time on ice holding me back. So for me at least, saving money for plane tickets is a better investment than upgrading tools. You've got to find what gives you the most improvement per cost. |
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certainly not gonna defend the vipers as an incredible tool but they are certainly a well suited tool to WI4 and below. Grivel North Machines are sweet moderate climbing tools but not worth the switch honestly wouldn't be my first choice on WI4 due to the lack of secondary grip (harder to switch hands and easy to bash the shit out of your index finger). |
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I currently own North machines (carbon) and have owned all but the current generation of viper. It is 100% not the tool. At the 3, 4, even 5 level it doesn’t really matter what you use so long as it’s modern (my correct opinion!). Spend the life currency on another trip to hone technique or a clinic vs purchasing a very similar tool to what you have now. |
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I have climbed on them, enough to say: It’s a good tool. In hand, it feels awkward, but actually swinging into ice (as opposed to just air-swinging in a store) it does great. I wouldn’t hesitate to take it into the alpine. Mine came with natural ice pick. For an alpine tool, I wish they would send it with three alpine pick, like they used to. oh well. it’s stiff throughout, feels good for easy mixed climbing. For that class: (north machine/quark/viper, etc) it’s totally adequate. North Machine prettier, Quark more customizable. viper has a better trig rest than the quark. they all have a different feel, but they are all good tools. |
Mike-Mayhem wrote: This comment is not constructive. I prefer to use the North Machine Carbon for ice climbing <= WI4, but the current version of the Vipers should not be holding you back. |
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Yeah i am not worried or thinking my tools are holding me back in any way, just trying to gage folks preferences between the two options as i felt like i could swap tools for little to no cost |
Jake S wrote: The main issues with using the North Machine Carbon for ice climbing are: the small pommel, and the Ice picks can be hard to clean. The Total Ice picks are probably easier to clean, but I haven’t tried them. There isn’t a good secondary grip option to hang from on vertical to overhanging terrain. That being said, I think they are very easy and fun to swing and provide good feedback. If you buy used, you should be able to try them out without much depreciating the value very much. You can then resell them, if you don’t prefer them to the Vipers. |
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I use the north machines for easy ice and I added the Petzl griprest (borrowed from my petzl gullys)  |
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What about the North Machine Carbons vs the Cobras? I'm guessing people like the Grivel's but thought I'd ask |
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I switched from cobras because Grivel picks are much better than the old BD picks |
Stever wrote: Ditto. Cobras have a great swing but I broke a BD pick leading a pitch in the Alaska Range and ever since then it kinda messed with my head. I was always worried I would break another in the middle of a steep column and it would put me in a jam. I've had friends break BD picks climbing with me too. |
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Having owned both I think the Cobras are better all around tools. |
