Arm Pump Surgery

motocrossactionmag.com/amp/…

How do you guys feel about this? It's a very common procedure among top-tier MotoGP athletes. Basically they slice open your fascia allowing your arm pump to reach indefinite limits. Arm pump can be such a limiting factor in top tier riders that they're unable to even let go of the bars from lack of oxygen and forearms just overpumped with blood. Would this improve the climbing abilities of top tier climbers? Does anybody know of a climber trying this? Any MotoGP riders who also climb?

I don't climb at a level to ever warrant something like this, but you have to wonder if those 5.15b's wouldn't feel so hard.

Interesting idea, the main differences is on a motor cycle your not trying to pull on your hand and the issue isn’t holding on its being able to let go and grab the clutch or brake.

So your arms just swell indefinitely? There must be a physiological upper limit to blood flow into the musculature of the forearms

Arm pump surgery is aid.

Hey Ben,

There's a limit obviously, I think the idea is that by opening the fascia, blood can flow in and out of the forearm more efficiently, so you'll only pump to a certain point, as the blood itself, and the limited size/flexibility of your fascia isn't constricting the flow of the blood.

Look at your forearm like an inflexible container. As blood flows in, less blood flows out, ultimately leading to build up. As the build up increases, hardly any blood flows out and hardly any new blood flows in, causing a lack of oxygen in the muscles. This leads to that "numbed out" feeling when you're really climbing at your limit, either onsight or redpoint. Cutting the fascia is like cutting a hole in the side of the container, the vessels have more room to expand.

What about scar tissue?  That looks next level dumb.  Fug'n motorheads - I'm pumped - so 6 pack of Monster and forearm surgery - lol.

EDIT: Nah - too dumb to be real.  Dude went through a glass door drunk or got carpel tunnel working on an assembly line somewhere - posted pic to his fellow motorheads as a troll.

Try weights first, lo weight hi reps will increase vascularity

Drederek wrote:

Try weights first, lo weight hi reps will increase vascularity

lol yeah I'm sure these professional motosport racers and climbers need some training tips

Eric Marx wrote:

Hey Ben,

There's a limit obviously, I think the idea is that by opening the fascia, blood can flow in and out of the forearm more efficiently, so you'll only pump to a certain point, as the blood itself, and the limited size/flexibility of your fascia isn't constricting the flow of the blood.

Look at your forearm like an inflexible container. As blood flows in, less blood flows out, ultimately leading to build up. As the build up increases, hardly any blood flows out and hardly any new blood flows in, causing a lack of oxygen in the muscles. This leads to that "numbed out" feeling when you're really climbing at your limit, either onsight or redpoint. Cutting the fascia is like cutting a hole in the side of the container, the vessels have more room to expand.

I'm just confused about where that blood flow is going; isn't this surgery just giving a bigger "balloon" to fill, rather than increasing vascular flow on return?

Ben Podborski wrote:

I'm just confused about where that blood flow is going; isn't this surgery just giving a bigger "balloon" to fill, rather than increasing vascular flow on return?

A bigger balloon to fill, while allowing an easier return of blood to the body, as the engorged vessels don’t constrict each other as much.

I remember around 2000 or so when I was in high school, this surgery got quite popular for pro motocross riders. There was a two page spread in one of the big magazines that had a collage of maybe 20 riders with only their forearms showing off their scars. I always figured if that it must work if everyones doing it.  I was also very close to all the best fmx riders in AZ and some from CA at that time and I cant say that I ever knew anyone in that circle that got cut up like that. It sounded like it was only beneficial for racers because of long continuous motos. Shaking your hands out in the air works, but of course only if you can still physically open your hands.

That reminds me of an old Supertopo thread about all the old timers that worked for the Mouse and had the opportunity to climb Anaheim’s Matterhorn. Someone had mentioned  how wild it was to be on lead and pumped out on some of the harder routes and have the holds you were on start vibrating from the bobsleds ripping around inside the structure! 

I think the problem it solved is nerve related, as they can no longer even pull in the clutch or brake lever, after a few laps. I raced and tracked motorbikes for over a decade and never got pumped like I do climbing. I also did full day rides on a Ducati 996 which has about the most aggressive riding position for a street bike and same thing, never got pumped.

I’m telling you this because I don’t think this surgery solves your problem.

I first read about the surgery being used by professional rowers. It’s used in emergency situations as well when pressure needs to be released. I was looking into it because of the debilitating pain I had after a day of long routes in the Pipedream Cave. I couldn’t sleep or open doors for days after climbing. It felt like fire running up my forearm any time my fingers were pushed back. The pressure was pinching a nerve to the point that my pinky and ring fingers were numb. Thankfully I found I could fix it with Advil, and it only happened on my first day of the season climbing pumpy routes. I guess the fascia stretched to compensate.

I don’t think having the surgery will instantly increase performance because you still have the same size muscles and capillaries. It could allow the building of larger forearms over time if you put in the work, or scar tissue could shut it down 

This is basically Compartment Syndrome that's being talked about? I honestly don't think this is a real good candidate for elective surgery.

I spent a day on a newer yz 450 recently and can say for sure that the pump is real. 

Long Ranger wrote:

This is basically Compartment Syndrome that's being talked about? I honestly don't think this is a real good candidate for elective surgery.

Yes, the doctors I talked to compared it to a “light compartment syndrome.” It allowed the rowers I read about to keep competing at a high level rather than being sidelined. 

Brendan N wrote:

Yes, the doctors I talked to compared it to a “light compartment syndrome.” It allowed the rowers I read about to keep competing at a high level rather than being sidelined. 

I would be pretty wary of any sort of shortcut towards getting to 100%, especially if its surgery. But I'm a, "not even a cortisone shot is a good idea" kinda guy. Most especially if it's not like, my job, and that job doesn't bring in a big sum of money and won't be something I can do for most of my life. I'm referring to crazy things NFL players do, but NFL is kind of a crazy thing to want to do, even though the pay is good.

Brendan N wrote:

It could allow the building of larger forearms over time if you put in the work...

I highly doubt that.  If skin didn't stretch, nobody would be fat and babies would pop out in 4 months.

For any surgery, there is going to be a wide range of outcomes, including death.

This surgery (a fasciotomy) is for compartment syndrome. It is an emergency procedure somewhat common among endurance running athletes (100+ milers) calf's. I have never heard of it being done preventatively other than in the article provided. Nor can I find any information anywhere else on the surgery being used preventatively. 

I bet the writer of that single article didn't fully understand the surgery is an emergency procedure resulting in the strange article. 

The body has a tendency to heal. Usually in the form of scar tissue.

The immediate effect of a fasciotomy is an unlimited compartment. The long term may actually be worse, depending on how you heal.

Typically this surgery is done in an emergency and I he wounds are left open, either packed with gauze or hooked up to a special vacuum. It's closed once the underlying cause has been addressed.

Unless there is a way to graft extra tissue, it sure seems like you'd lose function in the long term. 

Is there a such thing as compartment expansion surgery? Rather than the emergency fasciotomy that I'm familiar with?

highaltitudeflatulentexpulsion wrote:

Is there a such thing as compartment expansion surgery? Rather than the emergency fasciotomy that I'm familiar with?

Endoscopic Fascia Release for Forearm Chronic Exertional Compartment Syndrome: Case Report and Surgical Technique

Results: Symptoms resolved after surgery. The first patient resumed riding at 1 week, competing at 3 weeks, and continues to ride competitively without symptoms at 3 years postoperative. The second patient began riding at 1 week and won second place in the National Supercross finals 5 weeks after simultaneous bilateral release.