Mountain Project Logo

What's the best way to transition from climbing to ascending?

Original Post
Griffin Reding · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Nov 2020 · Points: 10

I'm curious, that if my partner and I wanted to do a multi-pitch route that I'm well comfortable leading but may be right at their limit, what's the best way for them to starting ascending from climbing if they decide they don't want to finish a pitch?

I F · · Megalopolis Adjacent · Joined Mar 2017 · Points: 4,368

2 prussiks (or microascenders or a combination of the two) and some slings. Follower sets the first prussik as high as they can, clip enough slings to be able to step upon it and get the weight on the prussik. Set the next prussik above the first one, clip to belay loop. Begin ascending. Awkward and takes some practice. 

Wren Cooperrider · · Flagstaff, AZ · Joined Jul 2019 · Points: 385

If you're expecting this, bring ascenders as that would obviously make this transition a little smoother than with the prusik. You might also consider belaying off a munter so that you can quickly switch it to a clove to fix the line and free up your device for the next lead.

Ben Horowitz · · Bishop, CA / Tokyo, JP · Joined Aug 2014 · Points: 137

I find the one prussik and one gri gri is the best if I'm in the middle of following a pitch and need to ascend a bit. Follow Ian's procedure, but instead of a second prussik attach a Gri Gri to yourself and then the rope. It is nice since if you get to a stance with easier terrain and want to climb normally you can feed slack for your belayer to take in until you feel comfortable detaching the Gri Gri and climb normally. It also allows you to easily bust a few free moves while ascending (self-belayed by the Gri Gri). I also find if hanging in free space (i.e. if I'm following and fall on a big traverse over a roof) the two prussic system is really awkward to use vs. having a Gri Gri. 

Seriously Moderate Climber · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Sep 2017 · Points: 0

Another option: belay them from above with a Grigri.  If they have a hard time, set a mechanical advantage by attaching a prussik and carabiner to the climber's strand and clipping the brake strand through the carabiner.  Pull them past their difficulties.

curt86iroc · · Lakewood, CO · Joined Dec 2014 · Points: 274
Wren Cooperrider wrote:

You might also consider belaying off a munter so that you can quickly switch it to a clove to fix the line and free up your device for the next lead.

no real need to do this. just tie off the munter to fix the line.

better strategy in case something happens and you need to lower your 2nd...

Pepe LePoseur · · Remote Ontario · Joined Jun 2020 · Points: 0

You lead on doubles or trail a tagline.  Second climbs on a single rope per usual and uses the other fixed rope/tag to Ascend if needed.   That way they are always on belay in the usual way and can transition between climbing and jugging whenever needed.  Probably not needed as much as you may think, but the extra “handhold” is always there.   Simpler and safer for both of you. 

Marc801 C · · Sandy, Utah · Joined Feb 2014 · Points: 65
Seriously Moderate Climber wrote:

Another option: belay them from above with a Grigri.  If they have a hard time, set a mechanical advantage by attaching a prussik and carabiner to the climber's strand and clipping the brake strand through the carabiner.  Pull them past their difficulties.

Have you ever done this?

Cherokee Nunes · · Unknown Hometown · Joined May 2015 · Points: 0

Why not choose a route within this person's free climbing range?

Put the time in to get your partner comfortable with what ever grade you want to tackle, regardless of technique. Do not put your partner into the position of having to sort out how to jug a rope while also operating over their free climbing limits. Its your partner, not a baggage handling operation. Expect your partner to know what needs to be known to get up and down safely. if that person doesn't know, teach them well, before you get them up on a multi-pitch. 

Given the nature of the question perhaps it would be best if both of you worked out how to transition to jugging, prior to multi-pitching it. Maybe practice it a bit. And beware of the blind leading the blind how-to advice in general.

Nkane 1 · · East Bay, CA · Joined Jun 2013 · Points: 465

Be aware that the second's full weight will be on the rope while they're ascending. So you need to make sure the belay stance is set up so the belayer can hold a tight belay for a long time; it might take a new prussiker 45 minutes or more to jug a pitch. Longer if it's overhanging and/or zigzagging. Shorter if they practice cleaning a pitch while ascending first.

Communication will be difficult if the pitch is long, so be very careful with tying off the belay: the second may start free climbing again if the angle backs off and will want the slack taken up.

You might be tempted to belay in guide mode and tie it off while the follower ascends. But this raises more complications: if it's terrain where you think the second can't free it, it's also terrain where they might want to be lowered. Be very sure you know how to lower in guide mode.

Better solution: stick to terrain you can both reasonably free climb, or at least pull through on gear. Both of you will have a nicer time. 

F Loyd · · Kennewick, WA · Joined Mar 2018 · Points: 808

You could do a 3:1 or 5:1 haul for shorter sections, but for longer pitches it's as simple as having you tie off the line where they're stuck and having them switch to ascending the line. You'll have them manage the loop as they ascend, then go in direct somewhere if they want rope taken again to follow as normal for the remainder of the pitch. 

If it wanders or traverses and such or has some not friendly edges you need to recognize that on lead and mitigate as much as possible or bail if it's not safe for the person to jug. 

Ascenders are going to help a ton compared to using prussiks. The grigri and ascender works decent enough though, just make sure that person understands how to do it efficiently or they'll bail before the next pitch anyway. 

John Penca · · North Little Rock · Joined Sep 2018 · Points: 0

Personally, I would not get on a multi pitch climb if I had doubts about my partner being able to follow all the pitches. A little tension or even a tug on the rope is fine. But if they need to jug the rope, you have lead them up too hard of a climb. Do you really want a new climber setting up a jug system mid pitch?

SMC had a good idea, but if the climbing is at all sustained, yer gonna spend a lot of time and effort at it. If there are others on the route they will likely be deservedly upset if you hold them up.

Are you experienced enough that you are comfortable with any of the above suggestions? At any rate,, if you decide to go forward with this, practice it in a controlled situation before embarking on a multi pitch route.

BITD,, if it wasn't a vertical or overhanging climb, the follower would just batman to the next piece or where they felt secure. The leader would yard up the slack as fast as they could once the weight was off the rope.

Old lady H · · Boise, ID · Joined Aug 2015 · Points: 1,375

If you want a follower who is confident they can get themselves UP a rope, no problem? Fix a rope anyplace, and let them try ascending with any TWO progress capture options they can manage. Doing so with prussik purcells (two foot purcells, and short prussiks up higher) was literally the first thing I learned, but, I've also gone out top rope solo with various stuff, used a grigri with an ascender and foot loop as a routesetter, and used a grigri for progress capture while moving up higher to belay my leader on a weird thing at City of Rocks.

If I was on a multipitch and wanted to be 100% positive about myself following? I'd add an actual ascender to what's already on my harness, to have that lovely built in handhold. Stand on anything, shove it up, shove the second part up, repeat. Way, way, easier with a solid foot to stand, while a grigri does the progress capture, and, a solid hand to pull, once it's shoved up. There are only two things to work out. The idea of two progress capturing parts, working off each other, so you can move up. And, being mindful to have two things keeping you from disaster. 

You can do it all with hitches, and NO this is not above what a beginner can learn. And YES I've done so. Starting at age 58. The beauty of something so simple doing something so extraordinary is what totally hooked me. 

The big difficulty with ascending, is getting anything whatever past an overhang, or anywhere the rope is tight against the rock. If there is an obstacle like that? The leader should have something else free hanging that the follower can use to cheat off of, and clean once they're past, if needed. I'm 4'11", and my first partner was 6'. He had a full 30" more reach than I, from tiptoe to outstretched hand.

Figure out all the ways you can cheat, too. I've yet to use my Kong panic, but my partner (the rope gun, lol!) has quite a few times, when we encounter bizarrely bolted stuff. Breaking an ankle kinda ruins the whole season, let alone that outing. We happen to enjoy places that include "old school" stuff, though, so it's best to be prepared to mitigate surprises.

Best, Helen

EDIT to add: don't drag followers up multipitch they can't follow. Period.

And? A super fun way to bring a new climber up an EASY multi is a party of three. Tie the new (or lowest grade) climber in to both the end of the lead rope, and the top of a trailing rope. The first experienced climber leads, with the other experienced climber belaying. Noob is just clipped to the anchor. As soon as the lead is ready to belay, off the noob goes. Merely has to unclip and reclip as they go up. No anchors, no cleaning, no belaying. Then, the lead brings up the last. If the pitches are short, the noob can be "tied" in to the center mark. I've done this three times (noob sandwich) and it's a real luxury! Noob owes everyone anything they want, and should definitely pack the second rope!

Austin Donisan · · San Mateo, CA · Joined May 2014 · Points: 669

Absolutely do not use prussiks if you plan on ascending at all. You'll hate yourself and bail.
If using 2 ascenders then there's not much to it. Hang on the rope, slap them on, and go. Obviously be connected to both of them.
If using 1 ascender and a grigri make sure they start the pitch with the grigri already on the rope.
Belay with guide mode. If you think you're competent enough to be trying this strategy you should already know its ins and outs.

Make sure they know how to jug, don't try to teach them from 100' away in the middle of pitch 3. If the portion they'll be jugging is anything but straight up reconsider your plan, because if they have the skills to jug traversing terrain you wouldn't be asking this question.

Transitioning back to free climbing is equally important, there's no sense in jugging all the way to the anchor if it finishes with 100' of 5.6. Have the follower go in direct to a piece and safely feed back slack to you to take in. How do to this safely enough requires judgement. Going in direct to a bolt after jugging 15'? Probably fine to just pop off the ascenders. Going in direct to a microcam after jugging 100' above a ledge? You're gonna want to feed it through a grigri or have backup knots.


I think people are being overly dismissive of this strategy. I've used it successfully before, but there's definitely only a small range of roues it's good for. Those routes have cruxy pitches where the hard sections can't be bypassed just by pulling on gear or dropping a loop. Don't just get on a sustained route hoping to free climb with jugging as a backup plan unless you're actually prepared to jug the whole thing.

Philip Magistro · · Estes Park, CO · Joined Dec 2013 · Points: 0
Austin Donisan wrote:

Absolutely do not use prussiks if you plan on ascending at all. You'll hate yourself and bail.

Shoot.  Somebody ought to tell Glen Denny.

Other thoughts:

Curt is right, no need to convert a munter to clove, just tie it off with a mule/overhand.  The MMO is considered equal to any other hard knot in the rescue world with the advantage of being load releasable. Of course, if belaying off a plaquette style device or grigri you can simply pop a stopper knot in the brake strand and let 'em jug.

Regarding the "never take someone on a multipitch if you aren't 100% confident they can send every move" vibe, whatever.  Guides do so all the time.  I will say, if you choose a route that will push you and/or your partner, equip yourself with a solid set of self-rescue skills that yes, can help in an emergency but also can keep a fun outing fun.

I put followers on a 3:1 with plaquette as progress capture all the time.  Typically not enough MA to actually haul, but it lets you capture every move and let a tired second get through a crux with some style.  Drop loop 3:1 gets 'em to the top in a hurry if you need to move.

In my experience (contrary to a recent IG ppst on the topic) the grigri as progress capture works way better for me when hauling than any other improvised pulley.  Pulleys, obviously, are best.

slim · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2004 · Points: 1,103

realistically speaking, if you are climbing with somebody who doesn't already know how to do this and they decide they don't want to finish the pitch, you are going to have a hard time teaching them how to do any of this and them being willing to do it.  the simplest answer is that you are going to bail. all this "mechanical advantage" stuff sounds great on paper, but if you have ever tried to haul anything remotely heavy you know that there is no way in hell it is going to work as planned.  add to that - if they are going to be jugging you need to be really sure the rope isn't over some sort of edge or you will have more problems.

cherokee and marc801 know what i am saying.

Philip Magistro · · Estes Park, CO · Joined Dec 2013 · Points: 0
Nkane 1 wrote:

Be aware that the second's full weight will be on the rope while they're ascending. So you need to make sure the belay stance is set up so the belayer can hold a tight belay for a long time; it might take a new prussiker 45 minutes or more to jug a pitch. 

If you are still belaying your partner from above in a manner that requires you to hold their weight every time they fall, please educate yourself on modern belay devices and/or how to tie off or make uni-directional the hitch you are using.

Nkane 1 · · East Bay, CA · Joined Jun 2013 · Points: 465
Philip Magistro wrote:

If you are still belaying your partner from above in a manner that requires you to hold their weight every time they fall, please educate yourself on modern belay devices and/or how to tie off or make uni-directional the hitch you are using.

I'm going to charitably assume that "you" here is the OP, not me. 

I'm perfectly comfortable with my choices of where and how to belay given the device(s) I choose to bring, the ergonomics of the stance (or lack thereof), whether I expect the pitch to be hard or easy or trivial for my partner, the protection at the beginning of the next pitch, whether we're swinging leads or leading in blocks, whether the previous or next pitch traverses into or out of the belay, the particular blend of speed and security we're aiming for given the environment and our objective for the day, or any number of additional factors. But I suppose there's always more to learn.

But I don't know if OP has thought through all of the implications of having his second hang on the rope for an extended period of time. Some new climbers set up belays in all sorts of uncomfortable fashions. His ticks don't include a send over 5.10 or a climb over 2 pitches, and he joined in November. Not slam-dunk evidence that he's a new climber, but certainly makes one think. I would give different advice to an experienced climber looking to add tricks to an already well-rounded repertoire. Maybe he'll weigh back in with more details on the route he's looking at and the relative experience of himself and his partner.

Philip Magistro · · Estes Park, CO · Joined Dec 2013 · Points: 0
Nkane 1 wrote:

I'm going to charitably assume that "you" here is the OP, not me. 

Substitute "one" if you like.  Seems like I hit a nerve?

Larry S · · Easton, PA · Joined May 2010 · Points: 872
Marc801 C wrote:

Have you ever done this?

I have, I've hauled my brother in law who is 40lbs heavier than me past a roof using a grigri and a tibloc to rig a quick 3:1 z-drag.  It was simple and quick.  I was standing on a nice ledge which was key, I could just squat down, and use my legs to lift him up.  Only had to move him a feet and he was good to go.

Another option is to do a counter weight... basically a top-rope power-belay, this works better if the belay is hanging/semi hanging.  You belay direct off the anchor with a grigri, but have a nice long tether for yourself.  You prussik onto the brake strand and put all your weight on it and give them a nice power belay, getting them past the difficulties. You can pull yourself down the climbers strand and get a lot of lift doing so.  (Like pulling yourself up a top rope, but upside down.)  If they can put any upward force on the rock they'll just float up. Hopefully its easy terrain near the belay and you don't mind moving around it on a bit of a tether.

Regarding actually ascending....  if they just need to pass a crux, I'd Prussik to the next piece, clip it and hang from it, then take the prussiks off, and have the belayer pull the slack up and try climbing again..  Passing gear and cleaning while ascending is a skill most people won't have, especially if the route/gear does not go straight vertical.

If you want to fully transition to ascending and cleaning the entire pitch, you will want dedicated ascending gear... ascenders, tethers, stirrups, and a grigri at the climbers end too.  And you need to practice doing it, because there are a few different ways to pass/clean gear depending on how the rope is running (Up, diagonal, traversing).

Morty Gwin · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2008 · Points: 0

Please report your subsequent experience on the What’s the Gumbiest Thing You’ve Ever Done thread.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Beginning Climbers
Post a Reply to "What's the best way to transition from climbing…"

Log In to Reply
Welcome

Join the Community! It's FREE

Already have an account? Login to close this notice.