LIGHT (film)

First, what an incredibly beautiful, important and well-done film! From the act structure to the heartfelt interviews (the friendship and jealousy between Angie and Emily is perfectly captured), to the many cameras for interview shots and SO MANY hours of editing this must have taken on a slim budget, this a movie that absolutely deserves the respect of every person in our sport. This is IMPORTANT. Take this film seriously. 

As the parent of a strong youth female comp climber, here's my question: How can we talk about eating disorders without glorifying them? Angie and Emily are awesome. I want to be them. I want my daughter to be them. Heck, I want my son to be them. They're smart, strong, thoughtful, courageous and committed. And the first 15 minutes of the film leaves open the question of whether disordered eating could have fueled their success. Yes, it's presented as a dark magic. But who TF cares as a teenager if it's magic or dark magic? If athletes with disordered eating are presented as winning, don't we all want to win? Wouldn't we all give anything to do it?

I don't know the answers. This is a problem in our sport and I am SO GLAD to finally see LIGHT on this issue. But if I could lose 30 pounds and climb a number grade harder, I would do it. (I can't and I won't...). Admit it: You would, too. How do we message to our child, teen and young adult athletes, whose g-damn prefrontal cortexes aren't nearly wired enough to prioritize their future selves over short-term success that disordered eating will effing kill you? And being killed isn't noble or honorable or in any way awesome?

Again, I don't really have any clue to the answers. I am so grateful to this film for starting the conversation. (Or at least amplifying it from the shadows.) But for role models, let's see Emily on Golden Gate; let's see Nina on Too Big to Flail (sheesh...maybe let's not...yikes...); let's see Meghan on, well, anything; let's see Sasha's resilience after surgery; let's see Brooke crushing in the park; let's see the crew of SLC indoor/outdoor boulderers enjoying being young and strong. And let's also see the many, many female athletes who fall into the disordered eating spiral, never have success, and never emerge. That's the truth of disordered eating. Fuck that truth.

Here's a link to the Climbing mag article, with a link to the film. It's less than an hour, and worth watching.

https://www.climbing.com/videos/light-a-documentary-about-eating-disorders-in-rock-climbing/

Garth, you missed one of the main points in the film. Eating disorders aren't just a female thing, or even a "rail thin" thing. That's partially why the film maker put this together. To highlight those groups that aren't the stereotype.

Climbing is tough. Pretty much every climber has been told somewhere, at some time, "lose weight" to climb harder, and, that it's supposedly easier than training your way there. Someone can be in deep trouble and still perform at a high level. And, not look like they just walked out of a death camp.

The one really great comment that resonated, for me? One of the women commenting that "strong" is way better than "light". And says they climb at a higher level now, at a healthy weight and in their mid 30s, than they did when they were 18.

That, sustaining strength, is maybe a good takeaway, for those with climbers they care about.

Best, Helen

Garth Sundem wrote:

Again, I don't really have any clue to the answers. I am so grateful to this film for starting the conversation. (Or at least amplifying it from the shadows.) But for role models, let's see Emily on Golden Gate; let's see Nina on Too Big to Flail (sheesh...maybe let's not...yikes...); let's see Meghan on, well, anything; let's see Sasha's resilience after surgery; let's see Brooke crushing in the park; let's see the crew of SLC indoor/outdoor boulderers enjoying being young and strong. And let's also see the many, many female athletes who fall into the disordered eating spiral, never have success, and never emerge. That's the truth of disordered eating. Fuck that truth.

Remember, females aren't the only ones that deal with this issue. But, I agree with you. It's important that we keep a perspective when we see professionals have success.

Just watched this while eating a whole box of mac and cheese straight out of the pot

Needless to say I'm not exactly the target demographic of this film, but I'm definitely sold on the idea that I can get stronger instead of lighter 

I was struck by how much happier they were when not consumed by their addictions, I wonder about focusing on the mental health/happiness aspect with younger children.  Could they each have recognized that they were unhappy while stuck in the throes of their disordered eating?  I also found it interesting how flat the narrator's affect was, her words of recovery didn't match the tone of her voice, which sounded so sad to me.

I think this is a really important conversation, especially for our developing teens.  It's so clearly all around in this sport, and yet so little discussed.

For myself, it's also hard to see this, when these climbers are clearly very strong....and yet perhaps not fit. 

It's even tougher to remember that eating disorders can also be "invisible" otherwise. As she pointed out, those who don't fit the death camp look, for whatever reason, are just not in our minds as a possibility.

The bigger picture, and real elephant in the room? Is body image and how we fit into the world. Our value. Especially for girls, but everyone, of course. Far too often, appearances are what matters first.

Best, Helen

Old lady H wrote:

Here's a link to the Climbing mag article, with a link to the film. It's less than an hour, and worth watching.

https://www.climbing.com/videos/light-a-documentary-about-eating-disorders-in-rock-climbing/

Garth, you missed one of the main points in the film. Eating disorders aren't just a female thing, or even a "rail thin" thing. That's partially why the film maker put this together. To highlight those groups that aren't the stereotype.

Climbing is tough. Pretty much every climber has been told somewhere, at some time, "lose weight" to climb harder, and, that it's supposedly easier than training your way there. Someone can be in deep trouble and still perform at a high level. And, not look like they just walked out of a death camp.

The one really great comment that resonated, for me? One of the women commenting that "strong" is way better than "light". And says they climb at a higher level now, at a healthy weight and in their mid 30s, than they did when they were 18.

That, sustaining strength, is maybe a good takeaway, for those with climbers they care about.

Best, Helen

Old lady, H, you're spot on and thanks for the perspective!

My sister, in high school, had a eating disorder.  I was in college and since I did not see her slowly fade away until my mom shared some pictures, I was the one that realize that there was a problem and I started talking to my mom about it.  After that, basically the whole family went to therapy to help her.  Her therapist wanted to interview all the family members to see how they are a influence on her overall.   We found out that both my mom and step mom had eating disorders.  We also got a good explanation why my step mom "Just has bad teeth".  Purging if you are not aware.  

Eating disorders in climbing?  I was not aware that eating disorders are any different in climbing that other sports.  I don't think 'LIGHT' really presented much research on climbing vs other sports.  I don't follow elite climbing and I dont really notice people that look too thin at the gym.  Light was OK.  I'm not raving about it. 

I mostly listened to the audio, but I think it skipped showing too many of examples of people being too skinny.  That can be "Pro-Ano" and a bad in influence on people with eating disorder. 

People don't pay enough attention to mental health overall.  It's something that you have to work on, just like working out.  I'm thinking that problem is more mental than physical for elite climbers.  Climbers are not going to send if their energy and strength is sacrificed.  

Preeti P wrote:

People don't pay enough attention to mental health overall.  It's something that you have to work on, just like working out.  

Agreed!

Gym Climber posted "Everything Tastes Better Than Skinny Feels"
https://www.gymclimber.com/everything-tastes-better-than-skinny-feels/

It is eye opening -

I’d go and buy jars of weight-loss pills, diuretics and caffeine pills at the local grocery store and hoard them in my dorm like a squirrel. This excessive drug use is eventually what brought me to the point of not only liver but kidney failure as well. Pissing your own blood is a scary experience, but it didn’t snap me out of it. I kept indulging in severely restricted eating, drug use and overexercising, because the number on the scale determined what grade I could climb, and how well I would perform at a competition. If I fell short of my expectations for either, it was because the number on the scale was too high, and it was my fault for not being disciplined enough to drive it lower.

Preeti P wrote:

Eating disorders in climbing?  I was not aware that eating disorders are any different in climbing that other sports.  I don't think 'LIGHT' really presented much research on climbing vs other sports.  I don't follow elite climbing and I dont really notice people that look too thin at the gym.  Light was OK.  I'm not raving about it. 

As a former extremely mediocre college athlete, eating disorders seemed like an unbelievably pervasive problem across all our schools sports.  My coach had gotten their thesis in eating disorders and then quite literally still created a culture enabling eating disorders. Its hard when you are an athlete, your mind tells you that you are as strong and fast as possible, the only way to get better is to reduce the load you are carrying. Then you get into a cycle where you think what is one more pound really going to do. Then there is an additional level of cognitive dissonance  where people think their sport is unique. I think saying eating disorders are both a problem in climbing and a problem across other sports is generally beneficial.  From my own personal experience I think at 135lbs-150lbs-180lbs my performance was the same, its how I recovered and felt the day after that was different (180 lbs was the best).

Part of eating culture stems from the idea of do whatever it takes to be successful. Its problematic to idolize people that made it to the top and not to consider their journey. People like to think the person on top wanted it the most, from my perspective most people want that success just as bad but they broke themselves on the journey there. 

Thanks for posting that Amarius. 

Princess Puppy Lovr wrote:

As a former extremely mediocre college athlete, eating disorders seemed like an unbelievably pervasive problem across all our schools sports.  My coach had gotten their thesis in eating disorders and then quite literally still created a culture enabling eating disorders. Its hard when you are an athlete, your mind tells you that you are as strong and fast as possible, the only way to get better is to reduce the load you are carrying. Then you get into a cycle where you think what is one more pound really going to do. Then there is an additional level of cognitive dissonance  where people think their sport is unique. I think saying eating disorders are both a problem in climbing and a problem across other sports is generally beneficial.  From my own personal experience I think at 135lbs-150lbs-180lbs my performance was the same, its how I recovered and felt the day after that was different (180 lbs was the best).

Part of eating culture stems from the idea of do whatever it takes to be successful. Its problematic to idolize people that made it to the top and not to consider their journey. People like to think the person on top wanted it the most, from my perspective most people want that success just as bad but they broke themselves on the journey there. 

Yes, I think they would be a problem in a lot of sports. 

I will say that my best bicycle racing was when I was my lightest.  

At times, I was meticulous about counting calories and weighing myself to meet my body fat% goals.  I bought a digital skin fold gauge to measure body fat.  My body fat % never really approached the low limit, but I was lean and mean.  My lean weight by estimate stayed about the same.  I never skipped meals.  I was eating all the time.  Bike racing burns a lot of energy.  All those behaviors are probably borderline obsessive and you have to make sure the mind is right. Proceed with caution.  Just like any overtraining situation.  

Bump to bring more attention to this movie and the topic of disordered eating in climbing.

Princess Puppy Lovr wrote:

As a former extremely mediocre college athlete, eating disorders seemed like an unbelievably pervasive problem across all our schools sports.  

Seconding Trevor's sentiments about there being a pervasive culture throughout organized competitive athletics that tends to reinforce the insidious notion that "cutting weight is the *key* to optimal performance".

Optimal performance is the result of a multitude of factors, but - especially when pushing one's personal limits towards the edge of the near-term envelope - it's easy to mistake weight reduction as an 'shortcut' to enhanced performance, rather than shifting the focus to expanding the limit through gains that require sufficiency/surplus of nutrition.

I would have loved to see the film delve more deeply into the positive value of balanced, sufficient nutrition. Perhaps get into the biomechanics and physiology of adequate vs inadequate nutrition in a rigorous way. It's pretty terrifying when you realize that the nervous system is mostly good fat - myelin sheaths, brain is 60% fat, etc - and that by striving to be lean at all costs, the body's ability to communicate with itself literally begins eroding. And that by the time the mind is set on the course of "This is how I will outperform myself and my rivals!", the physiological capacity to recognize the falsity of that belief is severely compromised on a neurochemical level. I like the analogy used comparing "hyper-optimal performance weight" as being in the "death zone above 8000meters" - it's and extremely dangerous place to be, extremely easy to get stuck in and slowly die, rescues are intensely complicated and hard to arrange before permanent damage is done at the very least, and the attempting it without massive amounts of education, preparation, and an exit plan is absolutely, literally insane.

I witnessed the issue to a severely alarming degree plenty in my time as a college athlete, and I'd be lying if I denied ever having struggled with it myself. Fortunate to have had the benefit of training with elite athletes performing at the Olympic level, but in such an environment, even a small offhanded comment like "We need to get the calipers on you and make sure your body fat percentage isn't holding you back!" can be immensely confusing and frustrating, with enduring impact, especially when in hindsight, there was wayyyyy more opportunity for expanding horizons in terms of strength, technique, strategy, and mental control than there was in limiting opportunity in optimizing/minimizing body fat percentage.

On the topic of prevention/remediation:
SafeSport is perhaps one organization well-positioned to take on the issue and affect change.

But given their mission statement and structure of their operations, it seems that helping prevent abusive coaching and self-abuse with regards to strategic nutritional deficiency could very well fall within their mandate/purview.

Somewhat surprising, the complete lack on content around anorexia/bulimia/eating disorders, considering the well documented correlations with abusive coaching. 

What's more, their HQ location in Denver puts them proximal to Boulder, which -as the video details - serves as a de facto cultural hub for elite climber development, as well as the Olympic Training Center in Colorado Springs, which is likely to be a heavily utilized resource for elite US climbers in the next couple decades.

I thought it was a strong film, and like some have posted its not unique to climbing but a problem in youth sports.

I have to say, that maybe the conversation should be how youth competitions themselves are a problem. None of them are there accidentally, and while I hope Garth has his own kids compete responsibly, there are parents and adults who enable this outcome. Of all the competitors shown in the film, none of their parents noticed the health of their children? None of them pulled them out for their safety? 

I honestly dont view kids competing at that level healthy, either for their bodies or mental health. Does your kid need to win the National Lead Competition to learn the value of "hard work", to have fun, to experience teamwork, make friends? Do they have to push their bodies to insane levels as children? Dont they have the rest of their lives to learn struggle and feel like crap, why push it onto 12 year olds.

While its probably impossible to eliminate youth sports at that level, I dont feel comfortable supporting them. How many burn out, eating disorder, horrific injuries, child trauma stories do we need for parents to realize its probably not the best idea to put their kids in that position. Whether its climbing, gymnastics, swimming, etc. 

Yuri Rodea wrote:

I have to say, that maybe the conversation should be how youth competitions themselves are a problem. None of them are there accidentally, and while I hope Garth has his own kids compete responsibly, there are parents and adults who enable this outcome.

Just about every athlete in the film Light had the same climbing coach...

This isn't at all new. I graduated high school in 1975, and was in gymnastics. Even way back then, it was a crazy amount of training, and extremely body focused. How you held your fingers, pointed your toes, every tiny detail mattered.

I never competed, I only got recruited because I was short and strong. But most of the real gymnasts? 

Those girls started with tumbling and ballet. At three or four years old.

All those decades of female bodies being objects to manipulate, use, and abuse, so common as to be simply how it is, if you want to play the game.

What has changed, now?

Men and boys are now also being recognized as having eating disorders. 

Best, Helen

Yuri Rodea wrote:

I honestly dont view kids competing at that level healthy, either for their bodies or mental health. Does your kid need to win the National Lead Competition to learn the value of "hard work", to have fun, to experience teamwork, make friends? Do they have to push their bodies to insane levels as children? Dont they have the rest of their lives to learn struggle and feel like crap, why push it onto 12 year olds.

While its probably impossible to eliminate youth sports at that level, I dont feel comfortable supporting them. How many burn out, eating disorder, horrific injuries, child trauma stories do we need for parents to realize its probably not the best idea to put their kids in that position. Whether its climbing, gymnastics, swimming, etc. 

I'm not sure I entirely agree.

I agree with the general sentiments that parents shouldn't encourage their children to pursue the podium at any price, but I also think there's some tremendous value in competing towards personal excellence at a young age. 

I think the key to doing it in a healthy way is to recongize that kids can learn the value of hard work, having fun with teammates and friends, and still pursue competitive results *without* pushing their bodies to insane levels. "Insane" etymologically/literally means "not healthy". Perhaps that's a circular semantic justification, but the point being - pushing *too hard* is not healthy, and not ok.

Agreed that the risks in pursuing a "dominant" level of performance are far greater than the rewards, especially at a young age. Perhaps this is more of an issue in sports that benefit specific physiologies like climbing, gymnastics, swimming, running, etc... But I also would generally be alarmed by any adult who seemed overtly concerned with the sports performance of a person under the age of 15. In fencing, at least, the Y12 and Y14 brackets are usually given less attention overall, and seen more as developmental age groups with a focus primarily on skills growth and developing a sense of discipline.16 and under is a bit more competitive, but there's really not that much implicit pressure until the U19 age group - at which point, student athletes are already expected to be dealing with the rigors of high school responsibilities and preparing for the difficulties of adult life either through the workforce, college, or both.

Not to say that there can't be serious cause for concern in how we collectively consider the topic of youth sports, but moreso to say that the notions of striving for the top of the leaderboard and hurting ones health don't necessarily go hand in hand, lockstep, what have you.

For example, in the movie, Caroline calls out "the beginning" of her body image issues as a particularly memorable moment in 1984, when she was ~7 years old. It sounds like she was a child athlete - swimmer, diver - developing muscle tone and bulk, but it doesn't seem to be directly related to "Elite-level" performance pursuits or pushy parenting.  The problem in that instance seems more tied to general cultural issues of body shaming - focusing on arbitrary aesthetics rather than performative ability.

I think my biggest qualm is the implied notion that competitive youth sports are inherently bad. There's also a lot of value in learning how to struggle and NOT feel like crap. There's nothing wrong with "participation trophies", and children *should definitely* be encouraged to engage with physical activity, even if not incentivized by notions of 'victory'. 

It may sound trite and cliche, but win or lose, what really matters is how one plays the game. At any age. 

And if playing the game involves putting your long term physical, mental, and emotional health at serious risk, it's time to change the game. Not to stop playing and learning to cope with healthy competition - which often necessitates learning to collaborate.

To add:

This all reminds me of the Enormocast episode with Will Gadd.

"Stoked on the Magic". It's a great one.

https://enormocast.com/2019/06/episode-178-will-gadd-stoked-on-the-magic/

There's plenty in there that does touch on the self-starving, ascetic mindset of late 80's/early 90's climbing, a "kiss or kill" masochistic mindset bordering on the suicidal, and how many of the elites thought the path to next-level performance was starving and suffering.
Then along come stoked mutants like Tommy Caldwell and Chris Sharma, who helped show that the path to next-level performance was moreso about enjoyment and healthy passion.