Automatic Crampons w/ boots without Toe Welt?

Is there a hack or some sort of tech which allows you to use automatic crampons with boots that don't have a toe welt? After I quick search I couldn't find anything, but figured some folks here would surely know.

Thanks!

Nope. Need the front basket eg https://m.petzl.com/US/en/Sport/Crampons/FIL-FLEX

I bought a set of petzel lynx last year and they came in the box with both a front bail and the basket.

Any idea if they are compatible with the BD Cyborg? Cheers!

Riley Weaver wrote:

Any idea if they are compatible with the BD Cyborg? Cheers!

I asked this same question about a month ago and the general consensus was that the petzl ones did indeed work. However, after purchasing them and trying them with a few pairs of boots they kept popping off mid pitch. Not fun when you're on lead. That being said I have the old style cyborg before they made them from stainless, so maybe the slightly different geometry of the newer ones might work in your favor.

Dirt King wrote:

I asked this same question about a month ago and the general consensus was that the petzl ones did indeed work. However, after purchasing them and trying them with a few pairs of boots they kept popping off mid pitch. Not fun when you're on lead. That being said I have the old style cyborg before they made them from stainless, so maybe the slightly different geometry of the newer ones might work in your favor.

Did you figure out what was making them pop off? 

Chris C wrote:

Did you figure out what was making them pop off? 

BD crampons (Snaggletooths) are a little bit narrower than Petzl crampons, so the Petzl bails are not as secure on BD crampons.  I found that the rear holes on Snagletooths are slightly wider than the front holes, so the Fil Flex bail is a bit more secure when placed in the rear holes.

Karl Henize wrote:

BD crampons (Snaggletooths) are a little bit narrower than Petzl crampons, so the Petzl bails are not as secure on BD crampons.  I found that the rear holes on Snagletooths are a little bit wider than the front holes, so the Fil Flex bail is a bit more secure when placed in the rear holes.

Thanks for the info! I recently swapped out my Snaggletooth crampon heels for Petzl ones and they felt pretty secure. Good to know your experience! 

Chris C wrote:

Did you figure out what was making them pop off? 

The metal at the attachment points was just a thinner diameter than the holes at the front of the crampons, so when I would kick or apply too much stress to the front of my boots and the toe bail would expand, the outside peg would pop out of its hole and my crampons would go with it.

Dirt King wrote:

I asked this same question about a month ago and the general consensus was that the petzl ones did indeed work. However, after purchasing them and trying them with a few pairs of boots they kept popping off mid pitch. Not fun when you're on lead. That being said I have the old style cyborg before they made them from stainless, so maybe the slightly different geometry of the newer ones might work in your favor.

Ok great thanks for the heads up! Might just give them a shot and see if they work on the newer model; I’ll report back eventually!

What boot are you using?  if the boot doesn't have a dedicated toe welt than it probably isn't meant for step in crampons or steep ice.  It isn't just about whether the boot has a toe welt its all about how stiff the midsole is.  In steep ice without a toe welt if the boot isn't rigid enough than the boot can flex and pop right out of a semi rigid crampon and having my crampon pop of while I'm leading sounds terrifying.  I have a pair of the tango towers (no toe welt) and they climb hard snow and moderate alpine ice ok with a newmatic or strap crampon but not nearly as well as my rigid Nepal extremes.  If you're going to do a lot of mountaineering you'll probably end up with several pairs of boots for different types of climbing. my 2 cents

Mydans wrote:

What boot are you using?  if the boot doesn't have a dedicated toe welt than it probably isn't meant for step in crampons or steep ice.  It isn't just about whether the boot has a toe welt its all about how stiff the midsole is.  In steep ice without a toe welt if the boot isn't rigid enough than the boot can flex and pop right out of a semi rigid crampon and having my crampon pop of while I'm leading sounds terrifying.  I have a pair of the tango towers (no toe welt) and they climb hard snow and moderate alpine ice ok with a newmatic or strap crampon but not nearly as well as my rigid Nepal extremes.  If you're going to do a lot of mountaineering you'll probably end up with several pairs of boots for different types of climbing. my 2 cents

Good question! I have an older pair of Scarpa Triolets which I’m making do with until I get a dedicated pair of ice boots in a month or so when I can afford it. I know they’re not the best boot for the job, but I’m simply hoping to make things work until I get some more specific boots and without having to buy a another set of crampons. That being said, I’m certainly starting to see the benefits of having multiple pairs, and might have to just make an investment in a pair that’s between the fully automatic and strap-to-anything aluminum glacier ones I have. Thanks for the beta!

You can “adapt” your normal auto crampon toe bail with cordage or wire to make a “basket” for the toe. Works OK but mainly as a field expedient.  I wouldn’t lead near your limit on it, but for temporary ice cragging till you get your primo set-up, it’ll give you good experience and boost your skill set.