Grivel north machine, vs tech machine, vs petzl quark

Hello! I’m looking into getting a set of ice tools, just wondering which of the following would be the most durable and versatile option. I’m mostly considering the grivel north machine and tech machine, but also looking at the petzl quark. What are some of the pros and cons?
thanks!

Durable: They are all durable. Not aware of any major issues with any of them. Versatile? They are all versatile. All can be with Hammer, Adze, or nothing, plus different picks. Petzl quark as the moveable trigger. I didn’t like it and removed it. The grivel tools are beautiful. I think they look amazing, and climb great. Petzl quark is also an equally great tool, and like the north machine, can be stripped and is a very light tool. Pick weights available for Quark, so maybe slightly more versatile. I don’t think the grivels need weight added. I would recommend getting the one you think looks cool, I own tech machines and have owned the other two.  

Versatile for ice definitely Grivel tech machine
versatile for ice + mountaineering definitely Grivel north machine or Petzl Quark. 

Personally I haven't really fully commit to do a lot of ice climbing so for ice climbing I still use my Petzl Quark and they serve me well, granted I don't climb harder than WI5 and M5.
So only doing Ice I would buy the Tech machine (or Nomic) and climbing ice + alpine I would go with the north machine or Quark. 

I agree somewhat with Fabien. North Machine and Quark are somewhat comparable and excel pretty well on ice and alpine. Above about WI3 I prefer the secondary/upper grip that more technical tools provide, such as the Tech Machine. Any aspiration to get on mixed then the Tech Machine all the way. That said, I don't love the grip on the Tech Machine. Have you used any/all before? 

Also note there is carbon and aluminum (non-carbon) versions of the Grivel tool to further complicate your quest. Carbon fiber is nice to have (warmer, better damping, better balance) but they're generally less durable if you're going to be bashing pins or lots of tool jams on mixed terrain. If you treat them well they'll last a long time though. We rent the North Machine carbon as our "standard" rental tool and have seen about 3 years of use without a lot of damage. 

I wouldn’t buy any of them until you swung them. Everyone has a preferable/natural swing and some tools just feel better. 

I have North Machines and X Dreams. 

I find that the North Machine bottom rest is too small / not enough of a U shape to allow for a straight-arm hang using only your skeleton. You have to actively grip the grip to feel secure. With tools that have a deeper trough at the pommel, you can let your pinky-side palm edge sit on that rest and extend your fingers completely off the grip and still be secure. To me it feels like holding on to the tool versus the tool holding you. Big difference. 

Petey Gil-Montllor wrote:

I have North Machines and X Dreams. 

I find that the North Machine bottom rest is too small / not enough of a U shape to allow for a straight-arm hang using only your skeleton. You have to actively grip the grip to feel secure. With tools that have a deeper trough rest at the bottom of the handle, you can let your pinky-side palm edge sit on that rest and extend your fingers completely off the grip and still be secure. To me it feels like holding on to the tool versus the tool holding you. Big difference. 

I have the same tools and notice the same thing

Assuming only one pair and no crazy overhanging mixed I would get the quarks. 

Thanks everyone, it seems like the quark is an excellent tool for climbing most ice up to WI-3. Do the Petzl grips tend to roll less in larger hands than the grivels? I wear a men’s xl glove.

I vote for Petzl as your first/only tool. More versatile (optional pick weights for cold/brittle ice), better parts availability and support in the US. 

Quark is a great tool, and specifically, the grip is more rectangular, “like a hockey stick” as it is marketed, but truth be told, that is probably the best way to describe it. In the lineup of: Quark, North Machine, Cobra, Viper, Anaconda, X-All, etc. Quarks standout for their adaptability. I prefer Grivel, but have owned Quarks and certainly didn’t outgrow them. You will have fun with them, is my guess.

NOMICS

Dmm Apex instead of quark, Pick weight included, top hand rest wont slide nor break. better Shaft angle (less knuckle bashing) Good handle size for large hands and mitts. Excellent build quality. 

DMM = Excellent Quality, can take a beating and...very heavy

I just replaced my quarks of 10+ years with grivel north machines. I was considering the tech vs north as well and opted for the north machines. I don't climb mixed, other than the occasional move or step, so I was looking for a water ice tool. I climbed on them in the ADK a week ago up to WI 3+ and they are a dream compared to the quarks. They have Grivels vario pick system which is sweet. Plus if your an AAC member you get 40% off, more than pays for the membership.

I asked a similar question on another forum, see link below, and got some great feedback.

https://www.uphillathlete.com/forums/topic/grivel-tech-or-north-machines/

Good luck

Petey Gil-Montllor wrote:

I have North Machines and X Dreams. 

I find that the North Machine bottom rest is too small / not enough of a U shape

That's because you're spoiled by the bottom rest on the X-Dream, which is so thicc you could park a Tacoma and a teardrop trailer on it and still have room to set up your camp chairs

Pat Light wrote:

That's because you're spoiled by the bottom rest on the X-Dream, which is so thicc you could park a Tacoma and a teardrop trailer on it and still have room to set up your camp chairs

The North Machine pommel is smaller than everything else on the market, not just the X-Dream pommel.  I think most people feel that North Machine pommel is smaller than they want it to be, even if it is "adequate" for most climbing.  The North Machine pommel does support your weight, so you can keep a relaxed grip on the handle.  However, a wider pommel would be more comfortable on vertical and overhanging terrain.  

I wish the pommel on my Matrix Techs were smaller...guess it’s gonna be a North Machine next

DeLa Cruce wrote:

I wish the pommel on my Matrix Techs were smaller...guess it’s gonna be a North Machine next

It’s easy to remove material from a pommel that is too large.  It is hard to add material to a pommel that is too small.  I would rather Grivel erred on the side of making pommels too large than too small. 

EDIT:  You can use X-Dream rubber inserts and/or tape to build up most pommels and make them wider.  However, it is hard to make them longer. 

I would fuck it up if I tried, but yeah, I kind of wish they had a “regular” pommel, like say a Viper, with a spike, but same shaft geometry

All I have to add is that I have the North Machines and have yet to find a fault with them. Climbing WI5 has not been a problem for me, and when I gave a friend's Nomics a try I preferred the North Machines actually. Not much mixed experience with either of them though, just the odd move here and there. The NM's are just so much lighter, the fatigue on long pitches is (even if cragging) significantly reduced, although yes you lose some of the momentum that the heavier Nomics give. It may be that I am used to the NM's, but I preferred the geometry as well. I have no issues with resting on the smaller pommel either.

Edit: Regarding the original question, I believe both the NM's and the Quarks can be outfitted the same and, without having used Quarks, it looks as though the NM's have more of a natural upper grip without needing to add a plastic trigger grip. I have no idea how durable and/or prone to slipping those are on the Quarks. Also, when wearing gloves the spikes on the head of the NM's aren't really a problem. You could always file them a bit if you plan on doing a lot of walking with them.

I have not had any issues climbing up to WI5 with my North Machine Carbons. If I had to pick one tool and give up the rest forever, the North Machine is the one I'd pick. Luckily, I don't have do that though because I really like the Dark Machine.