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Airline Pilot + Climbing? (+climbing careers)
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Hey MP, I'm at something of a crossroads in my life. Early 20's, nothing really tying me down, and trying to decide on a career that I will enjoy AND will give me a reasonable ability to climb in the long run. Currently thinking about getting into the pilot business, with the end goal to be a pilot at a major airline. Seems like a decent career for a climber when you run the salary/travel access/time off matrix, plus it seems pretty darn fun. I'm sure there are better careers for a well-rounded climbing lifestyle (I'm currently a teacher and if the pay was better it would be darn near perfect), and being young and foolish I'm open to suggestions from strangers on an internet forum. What do you do and how well would you say it supports your climbing hobby/addiction? |
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Pilots don't get paid all that much I don't think. But the ability to fly anywhere would be cool. |
John Dwyer wrote: i’m on the path there right now, finished my commercial pilot’s license this fall and finishing my degree this may. gonna work general aviation jobs for a bit to get some hours and climb then probably meander to the airlines. to respond to the above comment, the starting pay isn’t great for the airlines but once you’re with a major airline, six figures a year is pretty standard from my understanding. expect to work more in the early portions of your career, then be able to have more time off ass you become more senior in an airline. feel free to shoot me a PM if you want to chat more about it- i’m not an airline pilot yet, but i’d be more than happy to talk with you about my experience with the aviation industry so far ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ |
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Well maybe in the distant future, Lufthansa have closed their pilot training school and told the trainees to look for another career....... |
aiden the cam slinging slasher wrote: Isn't the airline industry facing pilot shortages as large numbers of their pilots are set to retire soon? It's probably not a bad time to try and get in if so. But, yeah, I've always heard that you have to be prepared to put in years of dirt pay and bad hours to get your foot in the door. |
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Pretty sure commercial airplanes are on the path of being totally automated with 1 pilot sitting in the cockpit to make the general public feel “safer” |
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Not after the whole Boeing 737 max fiasco. |
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I wish I would have done traveling healthcare when I was younger. You can go pretty much anywhere you want and the pay is decent. More than a teacher, less than a pilot. There are resources out there so you can share housing with other travelers and then pocket your remaining room and board money to increase your yearly take home. But, healthcare is something you should probably have a passion for versus doing it on a whim so you can travel and climb. |
Connor Dobson wrote: I know a guy who works for United as an international pilot and he makes bank, has a home in the Front Range, and does all sorts of cool shit all the time. |
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I dunno as a frequent flyer I've often felt the pilots are sort of trapped in a sense, flying the same routes over and over. Imagine flying one of those Fedex cargo planes on the midnight run, for a few years. Ew! I grok there is a lot of ew! in commercial aviation. Imagine flying into LaGuardia 4 times a day for 5 years, doing one of those east coast short hauls - stab my eyes out! The exciting sort of flying jobs strike me as far more dangerous; bush pilots, chopper haulers for logging or power line work, crop dusters and the like. On the other hand my cousin retired from the Air Force only to have a second career as an American pilot from which he also retired as a very senior pilot and instructor. He's an old guy now but he spent his whole adult life flying all over hells half acre and loved it. My nephew is a Naval aviator, as well. I guess flying runs in the family now that I think about it. And I love the pilots who get me up and down without killing me!! :) So if you're one of those I'll gladly shake your hand and thank you for a safe flight when I disembark! |
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I'd be concerned on the longevity of pilots with the change of technologies. As mentioned earlier autopilot and automated systems are making human pilots obsolete. In the next 20 years you may not have a job, or you may be just flying the plane remotely from an office building. It is also not a strong reliable market, as we saw with Covid. Thousands of airline workers lost their jobs this summer. With virtual technologies people are not flying as much anymore thus the airlines are suffering, this may be a long term effect, or maybe not. You may have good luck with Fedex/UPS though as shipping and mailing packages is becoming more in demand. |
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John- I’ll lend a couple pieces of advice, take it or leave it as you will. Any career is what you make of it. If you look at what people are doing for a living here, they are all across the board. There aren’t only a small handful of careers that allow you to climb a lot. In fact, it seems the other way around, there are a small handful of careers that don’t allow you to climb a lot. On the other hand, there are regions that afford a lot or a little access to climbing. Try to stay away from falling into the mindset of choosing a career (note, I’m saying “career”, not “job”) for the sake of having more access to your hobbies. In every career, there are people who are passionate about that thing. Those in it for the wrong reasons naturally find themselves at the bottom of the barrell. On the other side of it, being of high value gets you more job flexibility, higher pay, and more time off. Good luck! |
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I fly for a living so here’s my 2 cents. Being an airline pilot at the major level is awesome. I make great money, have a lot of time off, and do travel for free/cheap. BUT! Getting to the position I am now is not a quick or even a guaranteed thing. Figure on a decade to make it to United, Southwest, Delta, etc. That’s a decade of not having a lot of time off, certainly not making very much money, but you still do get to travel for free. And that is after spending 10’s of thousands of dollars to get ratings. And then when you do get there you are at the whims of the market economic cycle. I have very little concern of technology replacing my job during my career time. If my 6 year old daughter wanted to become a pilot I may express that as a caution but I suspect 2+ pilots will be flying airplanes for decades to come. Automation excels at certain aspects of of flying but performs horribly in others. |
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Thanks to everyone for the great responses. As much flak as these forums get MP is a much better community than most on the internet. |
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Living in you’re base is huge in terms of time off. Ive flown for the airlines for 15 years including a regional airline for 9 years and did 41 alaska trips in that time including denali. For me I had plenty of time off in the regionals but pay wasn’t great. It’s been a great choice for a climber! PM if u want more info. |
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Have you flown a bit and do you feel passionate about it? I took flying lessons as a teenager and loved it but realized that it was not what I wanted to do as a career. I really wanted to fly fighter jets without having to kill people on command but sadly that is not a viable career path. Helicopters are also pretty fun but my sense was that it takes a huge up-front investment to be competitive with the people that earn their experience in the military.
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I'm not a commercial pilot but I'm a private pilot who flies my own plane for fun, including on climbing trips. So I know a bit about the route you're going down but not as much as C W or Wisar above. A couple bits of advice would be to seriously look at what it takes to get into the "pilot business" as you've described it (note: the aviation industry is vast and I'm referring primarily to what the public thinks of as a pilot: the guys sitting up front in your jet). First off, know that you're looking at years in all likelihood. You'll probably need an ATP rating which takes 1,500 hours. That may sound foreign but the way you build 1,500 hours in a plane is often through instructing - for a really long time - for maybe $20 an hour or so. That's probably a seven day a week gig and really random hours. You fly when the weather is good, when the plane isn't down for maintenance, and when your student wants to fly. As far as short-term prospects, there are very few instructors being hired so building hours is a major challenge for aspiring pilots. On the one hand, if you're long the industry, maybe it's a good time to get started with your first year or two planned out (ie, Private, Instrument, Commercial, CFI). Budget something like $80-100K for that. After you get those ratings, you can start instructing and building hours. But understand right now that even highly pedigreed CFIIs and MEIs have a hard time getting a job instructing...much less a job in the right seat of a regional. Now, if you have a passion for aviation, my recommendation would be to look beyond piloting. I'd look into A&P school. That's a much more traditional job (8-5 type stuff) and there is an unreal amount of demand for it. There are lots of specialties (part 91 vs 141, avionics vs structures, etc) and I'd guess the mid-term outlook is far, far better than flying. If you can swing it, get a good job, live near a small airport, and then get a plane that take you fun places. That's the best combo! Best of luck. |
John Dwyer wrote: Learn to live modestly when you're young, and you can largely have much more freedom with what you do. Find a copy of "Your Money or Your Life". An old book, but maybe even more pertinent now than when it originally came out. Okay, is your school debt paid off? A pilot license is expensive! Stating what others sorta hinted at, one rather large barrier to piloting is... You need something to fly. That, decades ago, is what priced my husband out of even the simple pleasure of enjoying his pilot license. He flew up to biggish twin engine planes as a cargo pilot, for years, got his ATP and tried for airline jobs, but, in his 30s by then, he couldn't get anywhere. Eventually he quit the cargo job (burnt out) and he dropped his license soon after. It was too expensive to rent even a little single to play in, even with membership in a flying club. Insurance, largely. And? You need hours. Lots and lots of hours. It isn't like a driver's license, lol! Okay, so lets say you have that part covered. And still want wings for a career. But? Veterans. Don't get me wrong, I am totally for helping vets out, okay? But, for anyone else wanting those jobs? You are facing stiff to perhaps impossible "competition". I know people interested in being firefighters, or paramedics, or other such jobs. And? The first hurdle is a tough written test. Weighted for vets. Piloting, you have a big pool of people who have a huge amount of hours that they didn't have to pay their own out of pocket on. Plus, employers who may weight those applicants over others. Best of luck. If being a pilot is what you live and breathe for, well, go for it. Or whatever else, if you truly have a passion for it. But otherwise? You can have a perfectly fine life, made up of jobs you enjoy (it is a hefty percent of your time, after all), balanced with other stuff you also are passionate about, without ever having a "career", unless that's what you want. In your case? At the very least, "teacher" is way, way, easier to move around, and probably more secure long term too. Best, Helen |
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Regarding the Covid pain... Interestingly I was starting my flight school during another industry dark period right around 9/11. Flying for a living is all about timing the waves. Getting ratings and building hours during downturns to be marketable on the upswing can work out well. It’s a feast or famine industry. You either can’t find a job anywhere or you are getting junk mail from regional airlines begging you to apply. |
Mountain Dillo wrote: I said there still be one pilot to male people feel better. There could have been 100 pilots on those planes or 1 pilot and the outcome would have been the same. |
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I used to work in the cross section of the aviation and AI industries. I would personally be quite surprised to see a widely adopted zero-pilot situation in the next 15 years. Aside from the comfort of a human pilot at the helm (warranted or not), the pilot is really a minuscule cost in flying the airplane. I’d bet on seeing the role of the pilot moving even more heavily towards manual intervention/overide as autopilot becomes more and more advanced and we see failures like we did on the 737 MAX.
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