Insistence on using the left vs right slot of the ATC for belaying

A few people told me the belay instructor at a gym insisted that they use the "outside" slot (e.g. the right-hand slot if you are right handed).
1) Has anybody else run into this ?
2) Is there a strong enough justification for correcting people who use the other slot ?

Nonsense!

That's just silly.

belay instructor at a gym

Oh. I see the problem

But, want to have some fun? Go to the gym and ask noobs: "Why are there two slots in your belay device? A GriGri only has one. Why does that have two?" I've heard everything from "In case one wears out" to "That's so you can thread your rope in one slot, around the carabiner and out the other slot"

I usually prefer having it on the non-gate side of the carabiner, whatever side that ends up being.

Serge S wrote:

A few people told me the belay instructor at a gym insisted that they use the "outside" slot (e.g. the right-hand slot if you are right handed).
1) Has anybody else run into this ?
2) Is there a strong enough justification for correcting people who use the other slot ?

There's no real justification, but learning to do things with consistently is a pretty good thing to start practicing, especially when teaching new  people how to tie in, as well as belay. (buddy check)

And If the belay instructor is told to teach people one way, I guess: don't blame them if they do. Where does that rabbit hole go down to? The ridiculous demands of the underwriting insurance company?

There is no justification for it, but I have run into this nonsense, under the weirdest circumstances.

Years ago, I met up with a random guy from the gym at a local quarry. When I was at the 2nd bolt, he called out: hang on, I need to fix my belay device!

Since I had checked his ATC before I started climbing, and knew it to be good, I was very confused. Imagine my horror when I looked down, and saw him taking me off belay (without waiting for my confirmation that it was ok to do do), to switch the rope from the left slot to the right slot!

Turns out, he was told that he had to have the rope through the right slot, since he was right-handed!  

I, on the other hand, am left-handed, and do habitually put the rope through the left slot, though I do know that it doesn’t matter... so when I saw him put the rope through the left side during belay check, I never thought it strange. But he imagined it to be an incorrectly-setup belay device, that needed urgent correction!

I hung on until he put me back on belay, asked to be lowered, and that was the end of that belationship...

Lena chita wrote:

Since I had checked his ATC before I started climbing, and knew it to be good, I was very confused. Imagine my horror when I looked down, and saw him taking me off belay (without waiting for my confirmation that it was ok to do do), to switch the rope from the left slot to the right slot! 

Jesus that's horrifying. Hopefully it came with a vigorous chastising after you got down. 

wivanoff wrote:

I've heard everything from "In case one wears out" to "That's so you can thread your rope in one slot, around the carabiner and out the other slot"

I think these answers actually hit on something deeply embedded in the human species.

When we don’t know the actual answer, a significant number of us will assume the nearest plausible explanation is correct and forget about the assumptions that got us there.

Believe it or not, the left brain can be really good at this (mine included).

Bill Lawry wrote:

I think these answers actually hit on something deeply embedded in the human species.

When we don’t know the actual answer, a significant number of us will assume the nearest plausible explanation is correct and forget about the assumptions that got us there.

Believe it or not, the left brain can be really good at this (mine included).

The ability to formulate inferences is one of the features of human intelligence.  But it can go massively awry (look at the conspiracy theories that are drowning our political discourse in nonsense) without another feature---which requires a lot more work to acquire---and that is the ability to review and evaluate one's inferences critically.

The hand sequences in British belay techniqe, unlike US methods, employ both hands as brake hands at some point.  I guess they should undo and rethread their plates each time?

rgold wrote:

The hand sequences in British belay techniqe, unlike US methods, employ both hands as brake hands at some point.  I guess they should undo and rethread their plates each time?

Hah!   I guess I should have listed which answers to which I was not referring.  ;)

Nick McNutt wrote:

I usually prefer having it on the non-gate side of the carabiner, whatever side that ends up being.

This is the thing that really makes a (slight) difference. Right-handed belayers tend to clip the locking carabiner to the belay loop with the gate facing left, so putting the rope in the right slot of the ATC places it closer to the spine of the carabiner (stronger). Personally, I don't think it really matters.

Not Hobo Greg wrote:

Hm, I’ve always liked on the gate side, because then you could drop the rope in and out without taking the device off the carabiner. Is there a safety issue with that you suppose? Like the rope is that much closer to the gate?

I remember seeing a video showing HMS biner breaks at a lower load when it is loaded closer to the gate vs. closer to the spine.

Here's the video. The biner is used as part of the anchor and loaded at an angle. Personally, I don't use HMS biner in the anchor. I don't worry about it too much as the belay biner.

Luckily, you can load and unload the rope in an ATC on the spine side without taking it off the biner too. Simply load a loop in the slot, pull that loop through the ATC inside the keeper wire, clip the loop to the biner, then put the loop through the keeper wire again. Photo from David Coley's web site showing how it's done (look at the purple rope):

Not exactly left vs right slot but edelrid assisted brake tube belay devices (mega jul, giga jul) instructions specifically instruct to use slot opposite carabiner gate. Others have noted it is common for righty to have gate on left, thus right slot would be per manual.

I cant seem to copy manual screenshot on this post at the moment. But it described in text & pics.

aikibujin wrote:

This is the thing that really makes a (slight) difference. Right-handed belayers tend to clip the locking carabiner to the belay loop with the gate facing left, so putting the rope in the right slot of the ATC places it closer to the spine of the carabiner (stronger). Personally, I don't think it really matters.

Under load, the rope is going to move wherever it can. Which slot it's in will not make any difference.

Gunkiemike wrote:

Under load, the rope is going to move wherever it can. Which slot it's in will not make any difference.

This is my thought too.  

And otherwise, with as many as are doing it “wrong”, we’d be hearing more of accidents or at least close calls from it.

But a munter on a locker? There, orientation to the gate can be important. 

My rope always gets threaded through the left slot of the device with the gate on the right, because otherwise I would explode and that would be bad belay technique.

Another rule to file under "inexperienced yet overzealous gym staff": I am right handed generally, but I belay "left handed" with my left hand on the brake and my right hand on the climber's side.  Everything else is the same.  This is just how I learned to do it nine years ago, it is most comfortable for me, and I've had zero accidents ever.  I have been told by gym staff that not placing your dominant hand on the brake side is dangerous, without any explanation other than "you want your stronger hand to hold the rope down."  No acknowledgement of the importance of doing what is comfortable or of the geometric mechanisms in belay devices that require little more than two fingers (or less) to hold the brake down.  So now if asked, I just tell them I'm left handed.  

I've no idea if it makes much difference, but it might make some difference. If the break rope doesn't end up in the slot, it runs over the edge of the plate. In one case it will go through one sharp angle, in the other case two lesser angles. 

Does anyone else switch between slots so they wear evenly?