Stoney Point Wet Rock Warning

Hi everyone, with the recent winter rains this is the time to think about our incredible soft sandstone. After any rain, no matter how light, something happens and it turns into free standing pudding. I went out yesterday just to see what I could see and the place was deserted. That made me smile. I had a nice talk with two young men who were bouldering. One was enjoying his second day Rockclimbing and the other had been climbing for 6 months, in Mammoth, we talked about climbing and how chill it is. I asked them straight away to please not climb at Stoney for 5-7 days after a hard rain storm. To help them make up their minds I offered them information on other spots to go when it’s wet and kicked in a few beers- it worked.
Stoney has seen a huge increase in traffic because the Gyms are closed. The night climbing scene has been great all year long. Many folks getting their first taste of non-color coded climbing has opened up some eyes and imaginations to what is possible. I’ve made some new friends and shown them “the ropes”.

I’m not the only person helping out, Kristen Hernandez has been organizing “ArtWork” removal and trash cleanups and it really shows.

Somebody else went around and posted this: 

One climber was leaving as I walked up to him. He told me he was surprised that nobody was “out” then he mentioned “the flyer” and that it gave him a clue as to what was up.

To whoever posted these flyers I just wish to say Thank You!

It’s great to know I’m not the only person who loves the place, it will take a bunch of us to keep making it better.

So if you wish, please use this thread to get up to the minute rain reports. I have sources who live in Chatsworth.

THX

Bump for importance. Good stuff. 

Nice going Guy!   You catch more flys with honey uh or beer.   That’s the way to do it.  

As of today 1-2-2021 ... the place is dry enuf to climb again. If anyone wants information as to good places to climb when it’s wet- even when raining- PM me.

Thanks 

5-7 days? Where do these numbers come from? Are there studies to support this number of days? 

The sign says 4-5 days.

I've heard 48 hours and "if the ground is wet, don't climb" but now it's up to 7 days? 

I know many variables (wind, sun exposure, temps) are involved, but this is the longest I've heard.

How about damn near fifty years experience Frank!

If Guy says it about Stoney Point it is what it is.

Mark Frumkin wrote:

How about damn near fifty years experience Frank!

If Guy says it about Stoney Point it is what it is.

Ha ha. When I was a kid, I would sometimes ask my dad why I had to do something. His response (occasionally) was "Because I said so." 

This answer reminds me of that!

FrankPS wrote:

5-7 days? Where do these numbers come from? Are there studies to support this number of days? 

The sign says 4-5 days.

I've heard 48 hours and "if the ground is wet, don't climb" but now it's up to 7 days? 

I know many variables (wind, sun exposure, temps) are involved, but this is the longest I've heard.

#fakenews homie ;-)

FrankPS wrote:

5-7 days? Where do these numbers come from? Are there studies to support this number of days? 

The sign says 4-5 days.

I've heard 48 hours and "if the ground is wet, don't climb" but now it's up to 7 days? 

I know many variables (wind, sun exposure, temps) are involved, but this is the longest I've heard.

I had the same thought process until I saw it for myself. It’s more specific to Stoney Point, the sand seems to absorb it like a sponge and never let it go. It’s super annoying when it rains once a week, especially when the gyms are closed, but it makes sense in person. 

Guy Keesee wrote:

As of today 1-2-2021 ... the place is dry enuf to climb again. If anyone wants information as to good places to climb when it’s wet- even when raining- PM me.

Thanks 

Thanks, unlike other sandstone, Stoney does take about a a week to dry after a significant rain. Patiently waiting.

Happens the same here on our sandstone here in Ojai. Obviously when the sun is out super bright for a few days the rock will be drier than if it’s cloudy but for sure our sandstone takes more than 3 days to dry out after a storm as intense as we just had. That’s 4 local sandstone people telling you FrankPS that the rock stays wet longer than you’d wish for. Sorry you don’t like the answer but it’s the truth. 

I was roaming out Rocky Peak Road at the top of the hill on the way to Simi Valley the other day and ya know there are like a million boulder problems and short cliffs up there.  I was kind of embarrassed to think how much we just go to Stoney when there are hundreds of beautiful climbs to be done along the whole Santa Suzanna range.  Excellent social distancing up there along the top too.

Jon Hartmann wrote:

Happens the same here on our sandstone here in Ojai. Obviously when the sun is out super bright for a few days the rock will be drier than if it’s cloudy but for sure our sandstone takes more than 3 days to dry out after a storm as intense as we just had. That’s 4 local sandstone people telling you FrankPS that the rock stays wet longer than you’d wish for. Sorry you don’t like the answer but it’s the truth. 

Where did I say I don't like the answer? (I didn't). I asked what it was based on. And the answer I got was "experience." Which is fine, but there is conflicting experience.

Here, let's take it a step further. The photo with the sign says "three full days," but 4-5 days is better. Guy said 5-7 days. Is the sign wrong? Is it wrong to climb 4 days after a rain?

I was curious how people come up with a specific number of days.

FrankPS wrote:

Where did I say I don't like the answer? (I didn't). I asked what it was based on. And the answer I got was "experience." Which is fine, but there is conflicting experience.

Here, let's take it a step further. The photo with the sign says "three full days," but 4-5 days is better. Guy said 5-7 days. Is the sign wrong? Is it wrong to climb 4 days after a rain?

I was curious how people come up with a specific number of days.

Ever hear of the boy who cried wolf FrankPS?

Where I grew up (Czech Republic), we have a lot of sandstone. The border between Bohemia region of Czech Republic and Germany is loaded with sandstone towers. There are some rules that everyone abides by. One of the most important ones, was/is NO CLIMBING for at least three days after a rain storm. The sandstone in the Bohemian Paradise is very hard, unlike the soft stone of  Stoney Point so in a spirit of preserving the rock after a rain, more like  5-7 days should be a must for the rock to dry. We all want to err on the side of preserving the rock, don't we?

Alois.... Hi. IIRC there are laws in those parts of the world protecting the local stone.

And to Frank... no hard fast rules. It all depends on how much rain, how long it lasted, how cold, how windy and the humidity.

The last rain, the first of the season lasted for 24 hours followed by a warmish, dry santa anna wind dried out the stone quickly.
Scrape your foot on the ground- the top 1” is dry that’s a good indicator.
When we get to February- April, and God willing we have had rain storms every 4-5th day with partial sun it takes AT LEAST a week to stop leaking water from the stone. This is when it’s most susceptible to breaking.

Not all sandstone is like this. If you hike up stream on Sespe Creek above Filmore you will find sandstone that is as strong as steel, even when wet.

To preserve Stoney just go someplace else - It’s a great time to go to the desert and pull on Granite. Wagon Wheel or Mt Reubioux or??? all work. Big granite boulder fields can be found north of Jawbone canyon and around Kelso Valley- but I’m walking on thin ice giving away these secrets.

Spider- Please keep looking up there and report back. I’ve hiked up there and all I can find is some fairly soft stone- same for the Rocketdyne.
North of Stoney, “wrong side of the tracks” has a ton of potential. Stoney conditions apply to the Martin Landing AKA Garden of the Gods.

Thanks for caring. 

Guy Keesee wrote:

And to Frank... no hard fast rules. It all depends on how much rain, how long it lasted, how cold, how windy and the humidity.

The last rain, the first of the season lasted for 24 hours followed by a warmish, dry santa anna wind dried out the stone quickly.
Scrape your foot on the ground- the top 1” is dry that’s a good indicator.
When we get to February- April, and God willing we have had rain storms every 4-5th day with partial sun it takes AT LEAST a week to stop leaking water from the stone. This is when it’s most susceptible to breaking.

Thanks, Guy. Good explanation that makes sense.

David N wrote:

Picture stolen from the Facebook. I imagine this hold has been yarded on thousands, if not tens of thousands of times. 

According to the same FB thread, the left hand crimp before the rail on Masters of Reality was broken also. I haven’t been there yet since the rain so I cannot verify if that is correct.

David N wrote:

Picture stolen from the Facebook. I imagine this hold has been yarded on thousands, if not tens of thousands of times. 

Yup. Was there yesterday and the left hand was gone, looks fresh too. I stayed off the route but it’s a bummer. 

Spider Savage wrote:

I was roaming out Rocky Peak Road at the top of the hill on the way to Simi Valley the other day and ya know there are like a million boulder problems and short cliffs up there.  I was kind of embarrassed to think how much we just go to Stoney when there are hundreds of beautiful climbs to be done along the whole Santa Suzanna range.  Excellent social distancing up there along the top too.

I’ve messed around that trail also and thought the same thing, and although a lot of it seemed chossy or too soft upon closer inspection, there’s some development to be done around there, and one boulder problem I’m trying to piece together off the trail. Fun hike and I’ve met a lot of cool people there. 

David N wrote:

Picture stolen from the Facebook. I imagine this hold has been yarded on thousands, if not tens of thousands of times. 

This is very sad 

I’ve been climbing the Crack on B1 and pulling on, and often falling off that hold for 25yrs... that still makes me a relative newcomer in Stoney history... this Hold was probably originally created as a piton scar, before becoming a critical hold in a move that caused most to cut feet and exert massive force... 

yet now a little water and some bad judgement has likely destroyed, or at the very least altered a classic area test piece at its grade (this Hold was integral in Crack V3, Crack Direct V5, and Cracksma V6- all classics IMHO) 

I’m not sure if it’s lack of education, or just not caring about this historic area but I very much appreciate threads like this and the flyers- and I hope more local climbers will continue to enforce and educate new climbers about this very real issue