Timeline to complete AMGA / IFMGA cert in Alpine, Rock, Ice, Skiing

Hey y’all. Random question- assuming all of the skills are had, what is the fastest that someone could complete all of the American Mountain Guide / IFMGA courses and exams for all disciplines (alpine, ice, rock, ski)? On the  AMGA websites it says it can be done in 86 days. So in theory could it all be done in 1 year? 

You’ll have to wait a year between most courses and exams. Completing it in three years is very fast. Two years might be possible, but I’ve never heard of anyone doing it. 

One specific limiting factor may be the requirement to complete prerequisite routes in between courses.

Far better investments of your time, money, and frustration.

Cool. I’m gonna see if I can’t bang it out in a year. 

There are certain prereqs that must be done between courses, and some course/exams are only offered at one time per year. If you're dialed and nail it all, you could do it in basically three years. You'd need to have a WFR and Avy 1 + Rescue already at the outset. Something like:

Spring year 1: RGC

Summer year 1: AGC

Fall year 1: ARGC/AE

Winter year 1: IIC, Avy Pro 1

Spring year 2: SGC, RGE

Summer year 2: AAGC/AE

Winter year 2: Avy Pro 2

Spring year 3: ASGC/AE

Summer year 3: AGE

Spring year 4: SGE

Edit: and that assumes you meet all the prereqs in between. Definitely difficult with that tight of a timeline. 

Also, no need to certify in ice if you'll finish the alpine track anyway. 

Curious what the estimated total cost for all that is in just course and exam fees  

Better be dedicated to the craft and the lifestyle, cuz that’s a lot of food, trips, and gear you could have if you change your mind a few years down the road...something to consider if you’re currently thinking of “banging it out in a year”.   You might not be thinking very realistically   

Mark Pilate wrote:

Curious what the estimated total cost for all that is in just course and exam fees  

Better be dedicated to the craft and the lifestyle, cuz that’s a lot of food, trips, and gear you could have if you change your mind a few years down the road...something to consider if you’re currently thinking of “banging it out in a year”.   You might not be thinking very realistically   

Copy and pasted my reply from the last time this came up, the math is rough but its a ballpark estimate:

The base cost of the "rock guide course" which is the first course you must take is between $2,950 and $3,700 depending on where you take it. This doesn't take into account the opportunity cost of not working for 10 days while you take the course, and a handful of other expenses. The advanced rock guide course, another $2,950-$3,700 plus miscellaneous expenses. Then the rock guide exam, and additional $2,850 plus expenses. Assuming you would otherwise be working a job making 50k/year (an assumption just to have a round number to work with), those 26 days you aren't working cost you an additional $5,000 in opportunity cost. All together that's roughly $14,000 in costs, without travel and miscellaneous expenses included, before you see any return at all. While I'm sure they teach plenty of valuable skills there isn't a whole lot you couldn't learn through other avenues, and in my opinion that's incredibly overpriced for entry into a field where the average salary is 32k/yr (googled the stats).

Duke Mccrory wrote:

Cool. I’m gonna see if I can’t bang it out in a year. 

That's not going to happen. Not realistic.

So roughly about $30-$40K direct outlay for the year(s) just for the classes and certs.  not including living and travel expenses and not working much if at all that year(s).  

But if you can do it, being able to market yourself as “Fast Duke McCrory” has gotta be worth something.  ;)

Mark Pilate wrote:

So roughly about $30-$40K direct outlay for the year(s) just for the classes and certs.  not including living and travel expenses and not working much if at all that year(s).  

That's about right. The exams also all require a few days of paid work in the terrain, so you can't just be on a three year road trip to tick all the boxes, either. 

But if you can do it, being able to market yourself as “Fast Duke McCrory” has gotta be worth something.  ;)

Hahaha. That's awesome.

Derek DeBruin wrote:

There are certain prereqs that must be done between courses, and some course/exams are only offered at one time per year. If you're dialed and nail it all, you could do it in basically three years. You'd need to have a WFR and Avy 1 + Rescue already at the outset. Something like:

Spring year 1: RGC

Summer year 1: AGC

Fall year 1: ARGC/AE

Winter year 1: IIC, Avy Pro 1

Spring year 2: SGC, RGE

Summer year 2: AAGC/AE

Winter year 2: Avy Pro 2

Spring year 3: ASGC/AE

Summer year 3: AGE

Spring year 4: SGE

Edit: and that assumes you meet all the prereqs in between. Definitely difficult with that tight of a timeline. 

Also, no need to certify in ice if you'll finish the alpine track anyway. 

I doubt that’s a realistic timeline because you’d have to apply for the advance courses before you’d have completed the prerequisite course. There’s roughly a 6+ month gap between applying and your course. 

climbing coastie wrote:

I doubt that’s a realistic timeline because you’d have to apply for the advance courses before you’d have completed the prerequisite course. There’s roughly a 6+ month gap between applying and your course. 

Works out fine for the alpine and ski disciplines: summer to summer and spring to spring. Application deadlines for the summer stuff is usually the preceding spring, and preceding fall/winter for the spring stuff (that assumes you pass without conditional considerations such as movement skills, etc.). 

For the rock track, it depends bit on the year. But there are more rock programs than anything else, so spots regularly open up even if the application deadline has passed. Not saying this is/was 100% the way of it, but it could be done. If you prefer, just do all the rock programs in the fall and it should work out. The only dependency between tracks is RGC before AGC/SGC, so if you start in the fall, you can then get on SGC in the spring and AGC the following summer.

Let’s put it this way: if you have the time and money to try and become a full mountain guide in 1-2 years, you probably shouldn’t. 

Here’s why: 

You’re going to spend a phenomenal amount of time and money to do a whole bunch of climbing and skiing that probably isn’t exactly the climbing and skiing you’d like to be doing. (because it fulfills a prerequisite as opposed to inspires and motivates you) You also won’t be working or bringing in money. You’ll be doing this to enter a career that most climbers and skiers love to hate, that isn’t very lucrative, is quite hard on your body and mind, and that you have no idea if you’ll actually like or not. 

If you can afford to spend one to two years straight not working while spending 50-60k on climbing, skiing, and exams, you obviously don’t need to worry about money in life and should just go climbing and skiing for yourself. People that become ifmga guides just to prove that they can boggle my mind. 

Completing the AMGA or IFMGA track is similar in time and cost to getting a college degree. Sure you could learn everything about engineering (or whatever major) from the library, but at the end of it all you have a Bachelor's degree. After all your AMGA courses and exams, you have the IFMGA certification. 

For some jobs, businesses, clients and companies having a degree/certification makes a huge difference. For others not so much. Decide for yourself if the guide pin is worth it for you. 

You shouldn't become a guide because you like climbing for yourself. 

Professional satisfaction as a guide comes from the enjoyment of helping other people achieve their dreams and goals.

Do you have a strong desire to help other people? A willingness to be a teacher, but if you make a mistake someone might die? A need to work in Europe or Canada because a ski guide cert is not all that useful in the U.S.? Can you accept that technical skills are only a small fraction of what you need to learn? 

I was among the first ten fully certified AMGA rock guides in 1990.

It cost a few grand, several courses over a 3 year period, and a 5 day final exam.

I benefitted a lot as a climber, and made back my investment on the pro deals alone!

By '97 my investments had done well enough that I was wealthy enough to retire from guiding.

It is not a good profession. I've known less than 60 and 4 have died on the job.

Think about free soloing with rope drag. 

But I did meet some great people and over all, I'm not sorry I went through it, but don't recommend that you actually try to earn a living as a guide.

FrankPS wrote:

That's not going to happen. Not realistic.

Frank I am sure you’re right. But I like to set ambitious goals. And this isn’t really for a career choice rather just to take my knowledge and skill set to a higher level. 

it's been 5 months - how is your progress coming along?

I F wrote:

Copy and pasted my reply from the last time this came up, the math is rough but its a ballpark estimate:

The base cost of the "rock guide course" which is the first course you must take is between $2,950 and $3,700 depending on where you take it. This doesn't take into account the opportunity cost of not working for 10 days while you take the course, and a handful of other expenses. The advanced rock guide course, another $2,950-$3,700 plus miscellaneous expenses. Then the rock guide exam, and additional $2,850 plus expenses. Assuming you would otherwise be working a job making 50k/year (an assumption just to have a round number to work with), those 26 days you aren't working cost you an additional $5,000 in opportunity cost. All together that's roughly $14,000 in costs, without travel and miscellaneous expenses included, before you see any return at all. While I'm sure they teach plenty of valuable skills there isn't a whole lot you couldn't learn through other avenues, and in my opinion that's incredibly overpriced for entry into a field where the average salary is 32k/yr (googled the stats).

You're kind of headed in the right direction, but you need to consider the fact that while he is plugging away at this for 4 years or so, he isn't going to be making shit for money (the whole time, not just when he is taking the courses). That's one of the real opportunity costs. The other opportunity cost would be that he also won't be able to take advantage of time value of money, compounding, etc because he won't have any. He may as well get an art history degee.