Wide foot narrow heel doubles...

As per the title I have weird feet. Wide toebox with a narrow heel.  

I had a pair of the old straight zip 6000s and with neoprene heal guards the heel lift was manageable. 

I really really want g2SMs to work.... But it amazes me just how loose the heels are on sportivas.  Right now I can stand on the ball of my foot in a 42.5 that I believe is the smallest I can run without pinched toes.

I am not familiar with the fit on mammut's and Lowe's doubles. Also warmth relative to G2SMs I reckon is less?   Any fit experience would be helpful.  

The obvious option is a new pair of scarpa 6000s since scarpa tend to fit my feet the best but the multitude of reports of the zipper breaking is concerning....  

So any other doubles worth considering?  I was hoping to get g2s as they seem to be the warmest and work as a standalone boot in AK/Denali.  But may need to cross that bridge later as I need boots for a peru trip this year and would like to start using them this ice season.   

Go with a replacement liner. I think the intuitions are cookable and a ski boot fitter can fit/cook them for you and you’ll have a great custom fit. 

Plus, anything with a removable liner, you can add "C" or "Mustache" pads glued on to the outside of the liner.

Intuition and Palau are the brands of heat moldable, closed cell foam liners. Besides the heat molding, the benefit of the closed cell foam is the light weight and the fact that they don't absorb moisture. This is a nice on long days, but a game changer on multi day trips.

I would  think the stock liner boot of the G2 is heat moldable as well (From the way it looks) .In which case I would pick the size that splits the difference: a bit snug in the forefoot: heat molding can give you a bit more room. A bit loose in the heel: adding foam to snug it up. Depending on stock fit, you could consider sizing up and using a thicker aftermarket liner to take up the space in the other parts of your boot. (stock liner is lsited as 6mm, so 7mm liner would help a bit.

https://palau-ski-boot-liners.com/ski-liners/winter-track-elite-2/?lang=en

https://palau-ski-boot-liners.com/ski-liners/winter-track-explorer/?lang=en

https://intuitionliners.com/shop/denali/

https://intuitionliners.com/shop/aqua/

I use the intuition Logan liners and they work great. I recommend you see a boot fitter though. There is a lot that can be done to doubles to dial in the fit.

Thanks for the replies,  I've had notoriously difficult to fit feet so I think it's absolutely worth investing in the correct boot + a fit.  

After playing around and getting a smaller size of G2SMs I think the fit up front will be great after heat molding.  Then it's just the problem of dealing with the heel lift.  Hoping the mold is enough to lessen it to manageable amounts.  Or as mentioned a Foam insert to take up space.

Edit: I've also got the new Scarpa 6000s on their way in the mail.  Really hoping to get the G2s to work as they are a much warmer boot.  But fit is key of course.

Pete H wrote:

I use the intuition Logan liners and they work great. I recommend you see a boot fitter though. There is a lot that can be done to doubles to dial in the fit.

Do you use them in the G2s?  Hoping to just use the stock liner as it is head moldable + intuitions are spendy.  I do have them for my ski boots though and they are definitely awesome.  

A bit worried on nailing fit with the intuitions.  Does anyone know of a bootfitter in slc that does work with mountaineering boots?  I'm going to call wasatch touring + skimoco today.

greggrylls wrote:

Do you use them in the G2s?  

I use them with the 6000’s. I have not had the zipper problems, but I have seen it happen. 

I'm no expert when it comes to boots, but I currently own G2's and Phantom Techs, plus I owned Phantom 6000's 5 years or so ago.  What makes you think the G2SM is the superior boot, warmth wise? I'm sure others would argue the Phantom 6000 is a warmer boot.  I used my G2SM in 0ºF weather at 5,000' elevation on an ice route and my feet were warm, no issues, but I felt like the Phantom 6000 would've been warm, too. I'm just curious where/why you were lead to believe G2's trump everything else, not that you're potentially wrong?

Good question alpineice.   I have heard that the G2s are more of a 7000 m boot.  It's said that just the G2s without overboots are adequate on denali where the 6000s often require overboots.  Part of this may just be laspo marketing but it does seem that G2s are being successfully used on climbs like denali or ama dablam & other 7000ish himalayan climbs that traditionally called for 6000s + overboots.  

I know that marketing and online discussions are what they are though.  Anedotally I tried them on at the same time and the G2s are noticeably higher exterior volume and felt much warmer in the house.  Obviously this isn't a perfect measure and I would be stoked if the new phantoms 6000s are as warm/warmer. 

I agree 6000s are warm and outside of denali and 7000+ meters I imagine they would be plenty warm.  I used my old 6000s on a day when it was -14F in Joe's valley iceclimbing.  My feet were also sweaty on a rainier climb in them around 15F for the duration.  

At the end of the day I'm going to default to what fits. With my past experience with the 6000s I think they may have a slight edge but likely both will require some bootwork.  The zipper issue that seems to plague the current gen 6000s is also a big concern. (multiple sites have around 2-3 star average reviews from multiple people having complete zipper failure.)

Thanks for the comment though.  If I didn't make it clear I know I have a scarpa foot (rock shoes + touring boots + my current phantom techs) all fit decently well.  

It was just my understanding that G2s have the edge on warmth right now in this class of boot. 

For what it’s worth, I was able to get a better fit in the heel on Spantiks vs the previous iteration of Phantom 6000s.  To me, Spantiks feel a like a lower volume boot than than the G2SMs.  The fit of the Spantiks is somewhat similar to the Nepal and Batura.

A lot of people climb Denali in the 6000 w/o overboots. But it really depends on conditions. IMO if not on a technical route I see no reason NOT to wear them on a summit push even if temps seem OK. Cheap insurance if anything goes south.

Anyway I haven’t worn the G2s but honestly I thought they were less warm than the spantik or 6000. I could be totally wrong though. I love my 6ks. Lots of days on them and the zippers are great but they are the gen 2s, orange with straight zipper. 

I liked the straight zip as well but I sold mine because they were tired and now kinda regret it. 

Looking at technical routes in the next couple years hence why I'm trying to avoid overboots.  

Thanks for recommendations. I tried on the new 6000s and am not a fan of the spiral zip.   Liners were also kinda fiddly to get on.  + I still get heel lift.  Going to keep the G2s and heat mold + possibly get some custom boot work.  

I'll report back on my experience as I know there are more of us duck footed narrow heeled folks. 

I own the g2 and a pair of Scarpa Invernos. I also have a wide foot overall, I found that the g2 fit me better than all the Scarpa line up in the store, and I highly recommend heat molding the inners. The Scarpa Invernos fit me much more comfortably than a lot of the gaitered Scarpa boots, but obviously much heavier, and less agile than the g2s. On a side note, does anyone know which intuition liners fit the Invernos?