Is a gym whip legit?

So I've been climbing a bit over a year now, mostly indoors some outdoors, and I took my first real (i.e., unexpected) fall today in the gym. I was leading a 5.10c and just slipped off a dodgy handhold. It was totally unexpected, although that part of the route has some tough stances to clip from and I had bailed from that part of the route before.  

The next 2 seconds was a blur as I fell about 25 feet before my wife caught me, about 4 feet from the "deck." It was pretty straightforward and I managed to get back up and finish the route (although I stupidly z-clipped as I was a little frazzled). Does this count as a whip? I certainly would have broken something had I decked.

Also, I am amazed at how fast it happened. I didn't even have time to be scared.

Mark B wrote:

The next 2 seconds was a blur as I fell about 25 feet before my wife caught me, about 4 feet from the "deck." 

So, did you miss a clip, or did your wife not catch you properly? 25 ft seems like a large fall compared to most gym falls that I have seen. 

Levi X wrote:

So, did you miss a clip, or did your wife not catch you properly? 25 ft seems like a large fall compared to most gym falls that I have seen. 

Or maybe he was about to clip from way below the next draw? A mouthful of slack, plus perhaps a little more slack than actually needed (always harder for belayer to judge how much to give in those instances)...

Also curious to know how that happened in a gym. Something wasn't orthodox in there!

if you fell 25', I'd say thats a whip. My personal definition of "whip" is big fall. A 25 footer would certainly count. Not that some random dude on the internet's opinion matters, though...

A fall is a fall. The gym is usually overhung, so there's usually not a problem with hitting things on the way down, unlike moderate outdoor climbs. I've had many falls like this, with a lot more travel than expected. I expect your wife took a ride when you fell. This can be exacerbated by poor technique. What usually happens is this: you reach high to clip as your belayer gives you slack. As you climb past the draw, you introduce further slack into the system, and unless your belayer is taking it up as you climb, a big sport loop develops. In my opinion, this is belayer error. When my partner clips, I immediately take up the extra slack I've given for the clip, then gently continue to take up slack until my partner passes the draw. I definitely see a lot of belayers who do not do this.

N.B. take a falling clinic. They are amazing.

Levi X wrote:

So, did you miss a clip, or did your wife not catch you properly? 25 ft seems like a large fall compared to most gym falls that I have seen. 

It’s one of the biggest falls I’ve aeen in a gym. My hips were about 2’ about the last clip, I was 5 bolts up and I was trying to get a better stance to clip in to draw 6. I did not think I would fall that far. I am 200 # amd my wife is 140 and she had a sandbag. She was not expecting it either and she may have had excess slack in the rope.

M Appelquist wrote:

Sounds like he fell past all of them! Lucky.

I did fall past all of them!

Also, if your gym allows it, get an Edelrid Ohm.

Mark B wrote:

It’s one of the biggest falls I’ve aeen in a gym. My hips were about 2’ about the last clip, I was 5 bolts up and I was trying to get a better stance to clip in to draw 6. I did not think I would fall that far. I am 200 # amd my wife is 140 and she had a sandbag. She was not expecting it either and she may have had excess slack in the rope.

Sounds like she did!

That was a big and potentially dangerous fall since you almost decked. No need to classify it as "legit" or a "whip." People call all kinds of falls whips.

Mark B wrote:

It’s one of the biggest falls I’ve aeen in a gym. My hips were about 2’ about the last clip, I was 5 bolts up and I was trying to get a better stance to clip in to draw 6. I did not think I would fall that far. I am 200 # amd my wife is 140 and she had a sandbag. She was not expecting it either and she may have had excess slack in the rope.

So, to do some napkin math here:

1st case- You are at the 30ish ft mark (fell ~25 ft and ~5ft off the deck at the end) and you have a draw 2 ft below you and you have not pulled the rope yet to clip as you are aiming for a better stance. Even if we assume your gym has a high first clip, the max distance your wife can travel up is to the first clip which is at the ~8ft mark, plus 4ft for you being above the clip, plus another 5ft for slack.. thats having you fall a maximum of 17 ft (plus whatever rope stretch) and it wouldn't be a free fall because we are assuming your wife is pulled all the way up to the high first clip. 

2nd case- If she was not pulled all the way up to a high first clip and stayed on the ground with 5ft of slack you should only have fallen ~9ft (+rope stretch)

I think that there was one of two things going on: too much slack in the system, or the rope was not grabbed tightly and a lot of slip occurred. I'm guessing that its mostly the first thing because that much slippage and your wife would have bloody hands. Even if she was pulled up to a high first clip that still is too much slack in the system. 

Edit: I agree with victor. Get an ohm 

Levi X wrote:

because we are assuming your wife is pulled all the way up to the high first clip. 

If she was not pulled all the way up to a high first clip and stayed on the ground with 5ft of slack you should only have fallen ~9ft (+rope stretch)

We should not assume that as she was attached to a sandbag.

Kevin DeWeese wrote:

We should not assume that as she was attached to a sandbag.

You could pull up a belayer plus sand bag if the weight difference is enough. In both cases there was too much slack. In the 2nd case (the more likely one imo) she did not leave the ground and had wayy to much slack out (compared to case 1 where she had too much slack out still, but not to the same level of excess)

Levi X wrote:

You could pull up a belayer plus sand bag if the weight difference is enough. In both cases there was too much slack. In the 2nd case (the more likely one imo) she did not leave the ground and had wayy to much slack out (compared to case 1 where she had too much slack out still, but not to the same level of excess)

60lb difference between the climbers with a sandbags is not going to have the belayer and bag get budged unless there's a lot of slack out.  I'm 120lbs and most of my male partners are 200+ lbs and I've caught them in the gym while attached to a sandbag and it barely moved the sandbag. 

Agreed, there's no way the belayer was belaying safely or appropriately. 

Levi X wrote:

So, to do some napkin math here:

1st case- You are at the 30ish ft mark (fell ~25 ft and ~5ft off the deck at the end) and you have a draw 2 ft below you and you have not pulled the rope yet to clip as you are aiming for a better stance. Even if we assume your gym has a high first clip, the max distance your wife can travel up is to the first clip which is at the ~8ft mark, plus 4ft for you being above the clip, plus another 5ft for slack.. thats having you fall a maximum of 17 ft (plus whatever rope stretch) and it wouldn't be a free fall because we are assuming your wife is pulled all the way up to the high first clip. 

2nd case- If she was not pulled all the way up to a high first clip and stayed on the ground with 5ft of slack you should only have fallen ~9ft (+rope stretch)

I think that there was one of two things going on: too much slack in the system, or the rope was not grabbed tightly and a lot of slip occurred. I'm guessing that its mostly the first thing because that much slippage and your wife would have bloody hands. Even if she was pulled up to a high first clip that still is too much slack in the system. 

Edit: I agree with victor. Get an ohm 

All of these calculations assume that he ACTUALLY fell 25 feet. That number is just an estimate. Before his belayer gets dragged through the mud for supposedly having a loop of rope on the ground (highly unlikely for a newer belayer), we should also consider the possibility that the fall wasn’t ACTUALLY 25 feet.   :)

A lot of times people “guesstimate” the fall from the top of their head to the bottom of their feet. It happens naturally, lol. When you are “5 feet off the ground” you are usually thinking of how far your lowest body part is from the ground. When you are thinking about how high you are, you are  noticing where your head/arms were when you fell... again, because that’s what you were seeing/focusing on.

To the OP: it counts as a whip, if you decide that it is. There is no standard definition of a whip, beyond “bigger fall”, no numbers attached. And some people use the word “whip” for any fall, regardless. It certainly sounds like a fall you will remember for a while. You should worry less about whether this was a “legitimate whip”, and review whether there are any things you and/or your partner should do differently in the future. Congratulations on your first “unexpected” fall. Hopefully all your unexpected falls will continue to be uneventful.

Dave K wrote:

lol, somebody finally said it.

If he were outdoors I'd say it was a fish tale but he did say he was five bolts up so ... idk, six feet between bolts is more than typical for a gym, but maybe.

In a gym, a typical distance between bolts is more like 4 feet than 6 feet...

Look at this random gym photo (just randomly pulled from the web). assuming the guy in the photo is 5’10-6 feet tall, for scale, look at the bolt li next to him: there is a bolt around his middle, one just below his feet, and just above his hands.... looks like 4 feet apart to me.

Can’t speak for every gym out there, but looks pretty average to me.

Mark B wrote:

So I've been climbing a bit over a year now, mostly indoors some outdoors, and I took my first real (i.e., unexpected) fall today in the gym. I was leading a 5.10c and just slipped off a dodgy handhold. It was totally unexpected, although that part of the route has some tough stances to clip from and I had bailed from that part of the route before.  

The next 2 seconds was a blur as I fell about 25 feet before my wife caught me, about 4 feet from the "deck." It was pretty straightforward and I managed to get back up and finish the route (although I stupidly z-clipped as I was a little frazzled). Does this count as a whip? I certainly would have broken something had I decked.

Also, I am amazed at how fast it happened. I didn't even have time to be scared.

Sometimes this type of accident just happens, you have to try to recover quickly to get back to enjoying your favorite hobby.

Gyms range from 35-50' tall. 

Ropes are dynamic. 

Distance estimates are difficult in such a compressed environment.

You fell, got caught, and didn't deck. That's all fine. 

Armchair analysis suggesting a tighter belay may well slam you into the wall and break bones.

Pay attention to your potential falls. Grab draws or off route jugs to clip if you feel in danger. Keep at it.

Yes, I'm fairly sure it was about 25 feet and I think there was probably too much slack at the belayer end. If there was little slack in the system I should only have fallen 10-12’ as my hips were about 2-3’ above the last clipped bolt. My wife got pulled into the air and she had a sandbag. In fact, my butt gently dinged her head!

I know this particular route pretty well. I had bailed on it once before but this time I felt pretty good about it. It was a total surprise to both me and my wife. I wasn’t pumped or scared. I was just trying to get a good stance.

This definitely has me thinking about an ohm. 

And thanks for all the feedback and comments. This was for sure a learning experience.

One thing you might consider, especially if you have a consistent climbing partner: finish up your climbs w/o clipping the anchors & just falling from time to time, like once or twice a climbing session.

I've been doing that with my girlfriend for some time and it's been a great experience to us, both from a climber & a belayer perspective:

• Fear of falling really dials down/vanishes. Even if you're not gripped/incapacitated by fear of falling when above your draws, at least I my cases I sometimes had a bit of an hesitation, which tended to translated into less than perfect execution (holding back etc.), thus falling on moves I should have stuck. The fall itself becomes commonplace - all you have to worry about then is if the landing is clear.
• From a belayer perspective, the timing becomes much better and fall smoother. I noticed that I am now a better belayer, as she is as well.

I know I've mentioned that in a few threads already, so I'm being redundant, but it's really been a simple change in our indoor practice that's made tons of difference.

Tal Wanish wrote:

Actually an extra 8ft - you have to double the distance between the bolts and as previously mentioned, gym bolts are generally around 4ft apart. But I think OP said he Z clipped after the fall, not prior to.

Yep - after the fall. From the OP:

The next 2 seconds was a blur as I fell about 25 feet before my wife caught me, about 4 feet from the "deck." It was pretty straightforward and I managed to get back up and finish the route (although I stupidly z-clipped as I was a little frazzled).