Continue with onX Maps
Sign in with Facebook
Is the world's best climber a dodgy belayer? ADAM!!!
|
In Adam's Video "#58: No Fear - Belaying" he tells us how to belay so that we don't have to fear climbing. The one time Adam's hand are seen, he appears to clamp the grigri closed, so deactivating the locking cam while not holding the brake strand at the same time. https://youtu.be/BVEcdU_qoFw?t=301 Would you call him on it? "Adam Mate!... got a moment?.." Okay, so earlier in the video Stefano Ghisolfi can be seen doing it perfectly. https://youtu.be/BVEcdU_qoFw?t=101 Here's how Petzl say to do it: https://vimeo.com/206029975#t=50s Is the one climbing move that everyone must master pretending your belayer can belay safely? |
Noel Z wrote: Adam is also belaying left-handed & there is no current recommended method from Petzl for belaying left-handed. Somehow I think he'll keep the leader off the ground regardless of what Petzl currently recommends... |
|
Looks like he's using the old school GriGri1 belay technique with a modern device. Not a good practice for sure, but I can't say I'm surprised. https://youtu.be/aSVchbjVKLE?t=121 Just to add another video to the thread lol |
reboot wrote: ...until he drops someone. |
|
I don't think he belays left handed or is using the old Grigri1 technique in this video. He just uses the lazy technique of clamping down on the handle with the left hand while jarding out the rope with the right hand, without a hand on the brake rope at all. Sketchy for sure! |
Will G wrote: Agree it looks pretty much like the sketchy old-school method, but with the left hand. A lot of falls have been caught using this method. I don't know what's worse -- this technique, or the new technique but the belayer never takes their thumb off the cam for the whole climb. |
|
He's not using a grigri 1. He's not using any old method. He's not belaying left-handedly. He is cancelling the braking mechanism to not short rope the leader and he's no holding the brake strand. He's doing this: https://www.petzl.com/US/en/Sport/Belaying-with-the-GRIGRI?ActivityName=rock-climbing (image 2 of how not to do it). |
|
Dumb question: can a belayer really defeat the cam as the leader falls? I've only heard of the 'lowering w/o brake hand on rope' accidents. It should be no surprise that (some of) the best climbers are among the worst belayers. I'd bet some top race car drivers can't change a flat. Not that I think this is an unsafe technique. Not how I belay with a gri-gri, though. I climbed with someone for a few days, couple dozen pitches, swapping leads, rappelling. Then we went cragging with some others, and i saw he NEVER had his hand on the brake side, except to feed or pull in slack. Plate device, not a gri-gri. Very diligent about holding the climbers rope. I said 'grab the brake rope,' so he grabbed the upper rope with both hands, with a puzzled look on his face, as I began to belay his belay. That was a dodgy belayer.
|
|
This lazy method usually works allright, until it doesn't: http://publications.americanalpineclub.org/articles/13201213034/Fall-on-Rock-Inexperienced-Belayer-Improper-Use-of-a-GriGri-No-Helmet |
|
So many magical powers are ascribed to the grigri that many solo climbers used them to self belay. Here's a demo of a grigri failing, yes it took a few attempts but it failed to hold a fall even with thicker rope. https://youtu.be/PPjN3oFncc8?t=271 Still... safest device if used properly. |
reboot wrote: https://www.petzl.com/US/en/Sport/VIDEO---Specific-left-handed-technique?ActivityName=Rock-climbing |
|
The idea with the new method to give out rope quickly, by pressing with your thumb on the lever while resting your index finger under the ridge on the right side of the grigri, is that your grip on the lever is so weak that it will be ripped from under your thumb as soon as someone falls. That, and you still hold on to the brakeside of the rope with your right hand, being able to brake there too. |
Nate Farr wrote: petzl's video for left handed belaying is moronic. basically clamping the brake strand over the top of the cam - not a good idea. to belay left handed just keep your left hand on the rope and use the butt of your hand to keep the grigri from rising up. this will allow you to feed out slack without defeating the cam. really simple. |
Scooby Doo wrote: If he were belaying you like that, you would'nt see it. You'd need me to do it for you. You're welcome! |
Noel Z wrote: Just to be clear, it appears that it did catch....after a fair bit of a thrill?? Good stuff though, thanks! FWIW, I recently spent some time in the gym with a staffer. We both applied our imaginations to defeating a Lifeguard belay device in every way we could. The Lifeguard is similar to the grigri in some ways and also has a cam. Nowhere in the (skimpy) instructions does it even mention over riding the cam, but yes indeed, you can do so by pushing on the back end, just like a grigri. On purpose, to feed, but, I also hung my full weight freely on the device (no hands on anything), banged hard on the backside of the cam, and it released me. As in the video above, even the most miniscule bit of brake side kept it doing it's job. I'm always grateful to people figuring out the "gotchas" on this stuff, but actually trying it out yourself, in a safe setup, is super helpful, imo! Best, Helen |
|
You can see his left hand on the brake strand. It sounds like he’s left handed: “The measuring also proved that his left shoulder is about a quarter stronger than the right one. “A difference of up to 10% is normal but 26% is a lot because that means that one shoulder must keep trying to catch up with the other,” Tomáš Vodička of the Biomotor Laboratory comments on the results.” “One side of the body is usually stronger in most climbers,” reacts Adam Ondra. “I can do thirteen pull-ups with my left arm, while with the right one it’s only eleven. It’s always been like that.” |
|
Left or right handed, in the video in the OP he certainly doesn't have his left hand on the brakestrand. He grabs around the grigri with his left hand, fingers under the grigri, thumb on top to push down the lever. No hand on the brakestrand at all.  |
Kees van der Heiden wrote: You cannot see the brake strand of the rope in this photo at all, but in the short segment of the video where this photo was taken from, it appears to me that his hand was on the brake. He is definitely belaying left-handed. And it does matter, because the Petzl’s official technique doesn’t work left-handed, and what he is using is one of the modifications we lefties came up with. I use a different version, closer to what is shown in the left-handed belay video from Petzl, but not quite the same. This thread is funny... I’m pretty sure that Adam has caught more falls in his climbing career than ally of the posters in this thread. And if I had to choose whether I want to be belayed by one of the people criticizing his belay, or by Adam, without knowing anything else, and without being able to watch anyone beforehand, I think I’ll go with Adam... because years of experience do count. |
|
Oops, I must eat humble pie! I was wrong and he indeed he uses his left hand on the brake strand. Very obvious at 9:16 in the video. Well, learned something new today. I had never seen someone using the grigri left handed. Only seen it used wrong a lot of times. |
Kees van der Heiden wrote: Since being technically correct, is the best part of correct - at 9:16 we see AO take up slack using his left hand. |
|
I played the video in slowmo and there is without a doubt a moment where Adam is pressing the cam with his thumb without holding the brake strand:  Shortly after this he pinches the brake strand with his thumb and forefinger to bring in slack. It's pretty silly to analyze AO's belay technique from a short youtube clip and I would 100% trust him to belay me. Technically though, his method is incorrect and it should not be shown in a video specifically about belaying. |
