Should I take AIARE 1?

Planning on heading out to CO this winter for ice climbing. Not sure but might possibly do some winter mountaineering as well (if I can find partners). Would it be worth taking an AIARE 1 course while I'm out there if I don't ski or should I wait until I can ski? I'm sure everyone will say yes but just wondering.

Lots of aiare courses require you to be proficient at skiing because that is how you travel during the courses. I know they occasionally do snowshoe specific ones so you should look into that. Avalanches don’t just happen to skiers. If your around terrain in the backcountry over 30 degrees you should probably take one

AIARE is expanding their courses to include wider audiences including snowshoeing and snow machines.  Check your local courses.  Ice climbing requires astute understanding of the ice itself. Unlike rock climbing, the substrate can change within the hour do to multiple factors. There’s a huge amount of information re snow terrain in the courses.  Well worth it, and an investment that pays out over a lifetime, hopefully extending it.  Lots of people repeat course 1 every few seasons.

I did the AIARE 1 through Colorado Mountain School up in Estes Park and the split people up by mode of travel and there was a group of ice climbers on snowshoes. Was a non-issue with them. Course was good as well.

Just give the provider a call and let them know your situation.

Pete H wrote:

I did the AIARE 1 through Colorado Mountain School up in Estes Park and the split people up by mode of travel and there was a group of ice climbers on snowshoes. Was a non-issue with them. Course was good as well.

Just give the provider a call and let them know your situation.

Thanks. I was also going to do it through CMS

EDIT: Just signed up through CMS, that was quick lol

Martin Brzozowski wrote:

Thanks. I was also going to do it through CMS

EDIT: Just signed up through CMS, that was quick lol

CMS is a great school! Actually doing AIARE1 with them this winter as well. When will you be ice climbing in CO?

Jordan Dubs wrote:

CMS is a great school! Actually doing AIARE1 with them this winter as well. When will you be ice climbing in CO?

Course is Jan 4-6, so after that Jan 7-16

Martin Brzozowski wrote:

Course is Jan 4-6, so after that Jan 7-16

Ah, bummer, won't be around then unfortunately. Looking for some ice climbing partners this winter. Hope you enjoy the class and the climbing. If you're looking to do some mountaineering and ice climbing pick your guides brain from CMS. They should be able to point you in the direction of some good climbs that should be relatively safe for the conditions during your stay. Super helpful and informative folks up there in Estes.

So an interesting statistic, taking an avalanche course increases your chances of being in one.   

Dale D wrote:

So an interesting statistic, taking an avalanche course increases your chances of being in one.   

I can honestly say I was never in an avalanche until after I took AIARE I and companion rescue. Coincidence? I think not.

And to the OP--Avalanches are not just for skiers and snowmobilers. Glad you're taking AIARE 1. And when you travel in the backcountry, you should take your BPS unless you know for sure your avy risk is low.

Dale,

Makes sense, people who are more aware of the terrain (I.E. took a course) will probably be more likely to travel in it? I could see the case where someone who is clueless will simply choose not to go but someone who has education thinks that they're safer having the education and then decides to go?

Dara, 

What's BPS? Is that a beacon? 

Dale D wrote:

So an interesting statistic, taking an avalanche course increases your chances of being in one.   

Are you saying that people educating themselves in avalanche safety are more likely than people without avy education to put themselves in situations where those risks are higher? It's almost like the people taking avalanche courses were already going to go into those situations more than people who don't take them...

I get that you're post is a little tongue in cheek, but let's be honest: You're better off getting educated and making informed decisions if you're already going to go into the winter backcountry than not having that education at all!

Jordan Dubs wrote:

Are you saying that people educating themselves in avalanche safety are more likely than people without avy education to put themselves in situations where those risks are higher? It's almost like the people taking avalanche courses were already going to go into those situations more than people who don't take them...

I get that you're post is a little tongue in cheek, but let's be honest: You're better off getting educated and making informed decisions if you're already going to go into the winter backcountry than not having that education at all!

Actually, this is fact and is often said during courses.  This by no means is meant to imply that one should not take a course.  Statistics have shown that more people are involved in avalanches have taken a course than those who have not.  It has been hypothesized that this perhaps lends a person to take more risk give the “increase in knowledge.”  If a person seeks to backcountry ski, mountaineer, etc., which increases risk, why would one take an avalanche course?  

Example for rock climbers.  Take a lead course and start leading sport or trad will increase your risk of an accident and injury when compared to toprope (known after lots of reviews of climbing accidents). Perhaps not the best parallel, but I gave it a shot.

Be safe,

Dale

Dale D wrote:

Actually, this is fact and is often said during courses.  This by no means is meant to imply that one should not take a course.  Statistics have shown that more people are involved in avalanches have taken a course than those who have not.  It has been hypothesized that this perhaps lends a person to take more risk give the “increase in knowledge.”  If a person seeks to backcountry ski, mountaineer, etc., which increases risk, why would one take an avalanche course?  

Example for rock climbers.  Take a lead course and start leading sport or trad will increase your risk of an accident and injury when compared to toprope (known after lots of reviews of climbing accidents). Perhaps not the best parallel, but I gave it a shot.

Be safe,

Dale

Dale, I wasn't saying that the statistic is wrong, it's true and if you were unsure of it's validity it's completely believable if you look at it for what the statistic is actually telling you. The story isn't that more people who die in avalanches have avalanche education, it's that people who seek out avalanche education are already putting themselves in higher risk categories by engaging in the backcountry sports and travel that they do. That's simply all I'm pointing out.

Martin Brzozowski wrote:

Dale,

Makes sense, people who are more aware of the terrain (I.E. took a course) will probably be more likely to travel in it? I could see the case where someone who is clueless will simply choose not to go but someone who has education thinks that they're safer having the education and then decides to go?

Dara, 

What's BPS? Is that a beacon? 

Sorry, acronym! Beacon, probe and shovel. All the rage in backcountry ice-climbing gear.

Read "Staying Alive in Avalanche Terrain" by Bruce Tremper

Great book, loads of information, and good resource if you take or don't take aiare 1.

Erik Oles wrote:

Read "Staying Alive in Avalanche Terrain" by Bruce Tremper

Great book, loads of information, and good resource if you take or don't take aiare 1.

yep along w/ "snow sense"

Dale D wrote:

So an interesting statistic, taking an avalanche course increases your chances of being in one.   

https://avalanche.state.co.us/education-and-experience-levels-of-people-involved-in-avalanches-during-the-2019-2020-colorado-avalanche-season/?mc_cid=d3f5b8a15f&mc_eid=a7e07b31e7

From the article:

"Most people involved in avalanches had intermediate or advanced levels of experience, which is consistent with previous research (McCammon 2000, Tase 2004). McCammon (2002) found that avalanche education did not reduce avalanche exposure. Instead, our results suggest people were using their training and experience to spend more time traveling in avalanche terrain, or traveling during more avalanche-prone conditions. "

I hoped you enjoyed the AIARE course from CMS.  I've been guiding with them since 2004 and we were always happy to have clients with different modes of travel.  I think it is super important for ice climbers and mountaineers to have some avalanche education.  A lot of big ice routes in Colorado and elsewhere have avalanche hazard above them or on the descent.  I now carry avalanche gear on any climb that has any hazard depending on stability. In the spring once things have gone isothermic I will skip it but during mid winter I have it with me.  Its not that heavy and the number of climbers killed by avalanches is not trivial.  climb safe and have fun.

I took AIARE 1 in Dec through CMS- waste of $600. The $:hrs of instruction is pathetic. For another couple hundred bucks more you can get 4 months of instruction at community college ffs, what a racket. Unless you need the AIARE stamped piece of paper (I did, for work) save your cash unless money is no object. Read/watch videos/mentee and the new dumbed down AIARE content will make you realize just who this class is now for.

And if anyone would assume I’m the kind of person who is averse to formal instruction/education, I’m not, I was just terribly unimpressed by both CMS and the AIARE curriculum. My 2c.

Evan Gerry wrote:

Read/watch videos/mentee and the new dumbed down AIARE content will make you realize just who this class is now for.

AIARE isn't meant for people with previous bc experience. it's meant for those just learning, so in that context, the curriculum doesn't seem so bad. for an intro to avalanche education, no amount of videos and reading will take the place of in person instruction (they are good for reinforcement).

EDIT: my AIARE 1 was many years ago under the old curriculum, so maybe im missing something