Do Not Buy This Guidebook

Joshua Tree Rock Climbs (3rd Edition) by Miramontes and published by Wolverine.  

To the Arm Chair Climbers: Yes, climbing is inherently dangerous, guidebooks have flaws, and you should hire an expert and/or be an expert.

Moving on...

This book has so many errors that should have been corrected by the 3rd edition. I believe climbers should stop throwing the author and publisher some beer money until they take the effort to make some improvements.

Case in Point: Double Dip (5.6) in Joshua Tree is a frequently climbed route in Jtree. This book says the route is 90'. This measurement could not be any more wrong. I'm tired of telling new climbers about this major error that has lead to serious accidents.

I invite everyone to share other "major" mistakes found in this book.

*Rant Over*

(in fact, what other major errors exist in other climbing books?)

It's pretty hard to have hundreds of climbs listed, with no mistakes.

I have that book and it has served me well.

Edit: I look forward to the guidebook you write. There better not be any mistakes!

Gumby King wrote:
Case in Point: Double Dip (5.6) in Joshua Tree is a frequently climbed route in Jtree. This book says the route is 90'. This measurement could not be any more wrong. I'm tired of telling new climbers about this major error that has lead to serious accidents.

Are you saying someone rapped off the end of a rope because the route height listed was too short? That seems odd. I'm always looking to see my rope ends hitting the bottom when I rap, not at a guidebook entry. Also weird because Double Dip is a walk off. 

The one with the firewater chimney on the cover (first), sent me on quite the ride years ago.

In numbingly cold weather, a couple friends and I went to do walk on the wild side, and I had happened to eat some drugs of the paper varietal (ok that's on me).

After a proper horror fest on a route that felt way harder and more run out than expected (even for j tree standards), I found out years later we had gotten on this route as the guidebook had led us. 

There's some good photos in there but I too would advise caution in the Miramontes Book of Lies. 

almostrad wrote:

The one with the firewater chimney on the cover (first), sent me on quite the ride years ago.

In numbingly cold weather, a couple friends and I went to do walk on the wild side, and I had happened to eat some drugs of the paper varietal (ok that's on me).

After a proper horror fest on a route that felt way harder and more run out than expected (even for j tree standards), I found out years later we had gotten on this route as the guidebook had led us. 

There's some good photos in there but I too would advise caution in the Miramontes Book of Lies. 

Couldn't be the acid that led you astray; had to be the book!

Gumby King wrote:

Joshua Tree Rock Climbs (3rd Edition) by Miramontes and published by Wolverine.  

To the Arm Chair Climbers: Yes, climbing is inherently dangerous, guidebooks have flaws, and you should hire an expert and/or be an expert.

Moving on...

This book has so many errors that should have been corrected by the 3rd edition. I believe climbers should stop throwing the author and publisher some beer money until they take the effort to make some improvements.

Case in Point: Double Dip (5.6) in Joshua Tree is a frequently climbed route in Jtree. This book says the route is 90'. This measurement could not be any more wrong. I'm tired of telling new climbers about this major error that has lead to serious accidents.

I invite everyone to share other "major" mistakes found in this book.

*Rant Over*

(in fact, what other major errors exist in other climbing books?)

I think we can agree that there's gonna be errors, no book or even MP is gonna be 100% accurate.....

Instead of complaining on a forum, I hope those of us that see glaring errors (such as the double dip error), should LET THE AUTHOR KNOW so he can correct it.  Miramontes isn't gonna browse mountain project to look for errors.  

BTW - I found him on FB, but can't seem to find an author website to contact him.  Perhaps there's contact info in the book about corrections/submissions.  I don't have the book in front of me. 

Andrew Rice wrote:

Are you saying someone rapped off the end of a rope because the route height listed was too short? That seems odd. I'm always looking to see my rope ends hitting the bottom when I rap, not at a guidebook entry. Also weird because Double Dip is a walk off. 

In this one example, the person was being lowered off.  They, I believe, were planning to set up a TR and belay from the ground.

I believe there was a thread on this accident a while back (too lazy to search for it)

FrankPS wrote:

Couldn't be the acid that led you astray; had to be the book!

I was just following my sober friends, I claim immunity from the route finding snafu!

Just took a look at the ticks for that route and it seems we weren't alone.

The poor bastards

almostrad wrote:

I was just following my sober friends, I claim immunity from the route finding snafu!

Just took a look at the ticks for that route and it seems we weren't alone.

The poor bastards

I can sympathize with that. My friend and I were stone cold sober and thought we were doing WWS (he was leading). We actually did Negro Girls, or whatever it's called now. Went back and looked at the book again and realized our error. The book was right; we were wrong.

That full color gunks book is the worst guidebook I've ever seen.  ever.  It might be the worst piece of published work I have in my home.  but at least they have an entire page dedicated to william shockley, and another page about how you can drive to New York City on your rest day. 

Gumby King wrote:

In this one example, the person was being lowered off.  They, I believe, were planning to set up a TR and belay from the ground.

I believe there was a thread on this accident a while back (too lazy to search for it)

That’s even worse than rapping off the end of your line.   That’s pure belayer error not guidebook error no matter what the book says.  
Double Dip is a weak example, give us another one.  

Gumby King wrote:

In this one example, the person was being lowered off.  They, I believe, were planning to set up a TR and belay from the ground.

I believe there was a thread on this accident a while back (too lazy to search for it)

The somewhat recent accident in J-tree where someone was injured when they tried to lower off 35 m rappel anchor using a 60m rope was at the top of White Lightning at Hemingway. Which, if you look, is properly labeled both in the Miramontes book AND on MP as too high to use with a 60m. But, go ahead, blame a guidebook.

Andrew Rice wrote:

The somewhat recent accident in J-tree where someone was injured when they tried to lower off 35 m rappel anchor using a 60m rope was at the top of White Lightning at Hemingway. Which, if you look, is properly labeled both in the Miramontes book AND on MP as too high to use with a 60m. But, go ahead, blame a guidebook.

https://www.mountainproject.com/forum/topic/118327029/echo-tee-accident-saturday-february-8th

Scroll to Bernadette's comment.
Edit: You'll see I've made the same case prior.

Gumby King wrote:

https://www.mountainproject.com/forum/topic/118327029/echo-tee-accident-saturday-february-8th

Scroll to Bernadette's comment.

Maybe they could sue the guidebook author?

Kevin Mokracek wrote:

That’s even worse than rapping off the end of your line.   That’s pure belayer error not guidebook error no matter what the book says.  
Double Dip is a weak example, give us another one.  

Alex Honnold and Sanni McCandless must have been using an error filled guidebook as well!  

In all seriousness, if you lower your climber off the end of your rope, YOUR FAULT.  Not the guidebook's.  Close the system.

Tradiban wrote:

Maybe they could sue the guidebook author?

They should sue the company that made the ink that printed the length of the route.  

also, i own the miramontes and vogel books for jtree, both are good books.  i prefer the miramontes because i feel it has better photos and i’m illiterate.  

robert miramontes, if you’re reading this, i paid full price for your book at nomads and i was happy to. 

Rob D wrote:

That full color gunks book is the worst guidebook I've ever seen.  ever.  It might be the worst piece of published work I have in my home.  but at least they have an entire page dedicated to william shockley, and another page about how you can drive to New York City on your rest day. 

Over the years, i've held a lot of guidebook authors in low esteem, to the extent that I'm convinced that I'm an asshole.

But that guy...

So, fun story: he actually lives in Laramie, Wyoming, where I lived until fairly recently. And he has a reputation for making guidebooks of dubious quality. His Devils Tower book is so much worse because there is no other guidebook in print. You get used to bad gear beta or incorrect history in his Vedauwoo book. But his most egregiously dangerous errors came up in his Laramie Range book. Now, I concede that writing a guidebook is hard work, and even with a good editor, you're gonna make some errors.

So wasn't expecting perfect accuracy when I picked out a 4-star, 4 pitch 5.8 on Jack Squirrel Peak. I saw that Zach had put it up, so I was expecting it was lower quality than the book claimed, but that the information was more accurate than most. The descent info was vaguely "rap off back". So after climbing 4 underwhelming (but not particularly *bad*) pitches, we reach the summit and start looking for the means to rappel down. Slings, bolts, anything. Nada. Eventually we sling the summit block (which was sketchy as hell) and rap down to a saddle where we find... nothing. No obvious walk off, no good looking rap anchors, no sign that anyone had been here before. Following two more raps, involving a very dead tree, a tiny little tree, and a kicked rock that put a core-shot 6 feet from the middle mark of my week-old rope, we finally return to land. At the time, I felt like that ordeal was Zack's fault and I said as much on mountain project, in very aggressive and unkind words (like I said, I'm an asshole. The guidebook author did not cause the rock fall).

Now, here's where the story gets fun. First, the route was posted on here, by Dennis Horning (aka Dirty Dingus McGee, for those of you who have the old Devils Tower book). Dennis, Zack, and Zack's partner Rachel put up the route together. Dingus put a different name on the route, and included descent beta that differed significantly from what Zack put in his own book. Second, Zack figured out where I worked, contacted one of my coworkers, and implied strongly that I was casting my employer in a bad light by saying such mean things about him.

In fairness to Zack, I did go too far, and I toned it down some after my coworker contacted me about it. But I'm still irritated that my criticism of how he does his job led to him implicitly threatening my job instead of, you know, sending me an email via mountain project or Facebook. So now, I'm a bit more anonymous. And I'm still irritated that Zack gave the route the highest possible rating, implying that everyone should do it, but then put so little rigor into his craft that he didn't even compare notes with the other people he did the route with in the first place.

Pretty pedestrian guide book I must say. It listed illusion dweller as being 110'. I measured it the other day with a tape measure...112' what a bunch of shit. can you believe it?!? Please do your research I next time Mr miramontes

Petsfed 00 wrote:

Over the years, i've held a lot of guidebook authors in low esteem, to the extent that I'm convinced that I'm an asshole.

But that guy...

So, fun story: he actually lives in Laramie, Wyoming, where I lived until fairly recently. And he has a reputation for making guidebooks of dubious quality. His Devils Tower book is so much worse because there is no other guidebook in print. You get used to bad gear beta or incorrect history in his Vedauwoo book. But his most egregiously dangerous errors came up in his Laramie Range book. Now, I concede that writing a guidebook is hard work, and even with a good editor, you're gonna make some errors.

So wasn't expecting perfect accuracy when I picked out a 4-star, 4 pitch 5.8 on Jack Squirrel Peak. I saw that Zach had put it up, so I was expecting it was lower quality than the book claimed, but that the information was more accurate than most. The descent info was vaguely "rap off back". So after climbing 4 underwhelming (but not particularly *bad*) pitches, we reach the summit and start looking for the means to rappel down. Slings, bolts, anything. Nada. Eventually we sling the summit block (which was sketchy as hell) and rap down to a saddle where we find... nothing. No obvious walk off, no good looking rap anchors, no sign that anyone had been here before. Following two more raps, involving a very dead tree, a tiny little tree, and a kicked rock that put a core-shot 6 feet from the middle mark of my week-old rope, we finally return to land. At the time, I felt like that ordeal was Zack's fault and I said as much on mountain project, in very aggressive and unkind words (like I said, I'm an asshole. The guidebook author did not cause the rock fall).

Now, here's where the story gets fun. First, the route was posted on here, by Dennis Horning (aka Dirty Dingus McGee, for those of you who have the old Devils Tower book). Dennis, Zack, and Zack's partner Rachel put up the route together. Dingus put a different name on the route, and included descent beta that differed significantly from what Zack put in his own book. Second, Zack figured out where I worked, contacted one of my coworkers, and implied strongly that I was casting my employer in a bad light by saying such mean things about him.

In fairness to Zack, I did go too far, and I toned it down some after my coworker contacted me about it. But I'm still irritated that my criticism of how he does his job led to him implicitly threatening my job instead of, you know, sending me an email via mountain project or Facebook. So now, I'm a bit more anonymous. And I'm still irritated that Zack gave the route the highest possible rating, implying that everyone should do it, but then put so little rigor into his craft that he didn't even compare notes with the other people he did the route with in the first place.

I think that you did the FA of that route on Jack Squirrel.  Zach, et al. did three pitches. You and I each found four obligatory pitches to reach the summit. And you found no slings or other anchors on top.  Perhaps this is just another example of inaccurate information in his book. See my comment under “Cowgirl’s Dream.”

Btw I took the locker from the “sketchy” cordellettes wrapping the broad summit fin, but removing the cords was too much trouble without a knife. I left a sling on an adjacent, easy-to-use block.

Edit: Look at p. 145 in the guidebook. The photo shows Dennis Horning “rapping off Main Line after the first ascent.” That picture wasn’t taken from the summit or anywhere close to it. It might have been taken from the south (lower) summit, from which the ground would drop down to skiers left, as in the photo. The south summit could be reached by an easy-looking third pitch up a gully that heads leftish (southish) from the top of my second pitch, which is the same as the second pitch that Zach is pictured leading on the Cowgirl’s Dream page. 

Gumby King wrote:

https://www.mountainproject.com/forum/topic/118327029/echo-tee-accident-saturday-february-8th

Scroll to Bernadette's comment.
Edit: You'll see I've made the same case prior.

Thanks for looking up the correct accident. I stand corrected. I'm still not seeing how it's a guidebook's fault. My ropes all have a half-mark on them. If my climber has passed that point on the rope, don't lower. End of story. Also, knots in the end of ropes prevent this.

I had to prevent an accident in J-tree when I saw someone lowering off a climb (with gear still in on a wandering route) that I'd BARELY touched down from rapping with a full 70. I asked the belayer if their rope was long enough. She shrugged. Turns out it was a 60m. I looked at the end of the rope. No knot. This was soon after Brad G had died rappelling in Mexico and safety was kind of foremost on my mind. Otherwise I might not have even engaged my climbing neighbor. We ended up having to tie a 2nd rope in and use a 2nd belay device to get her climber safely to the ground.

People should pay more attention to this kind of shit. A guidebook's job is to help me find places to climb and give me a rough sense of what it will involve. It's not the author's job to act like my safety advisor. 

Well, at least no one has started bashing the *(fill in the blank)* Bloom Guide.