Girth hitch rap extension

I’ve been wondering, after following Dale Remsberg on IG and seeing all his girth hitch anchors, what do you all think about using a girth to attach your atc to a double length sling rap extension? Any safety concerns? Pros and cons? What about a clove, any different?

It seems like if we accept that girth hitches are redundant, this is faster and easier to undo after being weighted than a bite knot or a regular overhand halfway up the sling.

Here’s what I’m thinking: double length sling girth hitched to hard points, girth (or clove) hitch hms biner with atc, tether  

i see no advantages when compared to a standard rap extension...

girth hitch two tails: one long, one short.

mbkwrote:

girth hitch two tails: one long, one short.

You mean basket hitch?

Don't people clove hitch the Petzl Connect PAS to their ATC to rappel? 

If you girth hitch the carabiner at the end of the tether too, it stays put on the bottom of the biner and in place for a quick clip.

Adam Mandelwrote:

You mean basket hitch?

Not a basket hitch. Like this:

aikibujinwrote:

Not a basket hitch. Like this:

Neat, thanks. 

aikibujinwrote:

Not a basket hitch. Like this:

That's clever and useful but it's not what OP's asking about (look at HIS photo). The set up of the blue sling here is not redundant - OP's is - so if the extension got tangled up in the rap rope(s), and burned through* you're in trouble. Better hope your autoblock works.

* Not likely to happen, but as has been stated often, redundancy is to address accidents that we don't expect.

OP - I suspect you're fine girth hitching your device in the middle of the sling.

Gunkiemikewrote:

That's clever and useful but it's not what OP's asking about (look at HIS photo). The set up of the blue sling here is not redundant - OP's is - so if the extension got tangled up in the rap rope(s), and burned through* you're in trouble. Better hope your autoblock works.

My reply wasn't to the OP, it was to Adam Mandel explaining what (I think) mbk meant.

aikibujinwrote:

My reply wasn't to the OP, it was to Adam Mandel explaining what (I think) mbk meant.

That is what I meant, thanks for the photo!

curt86irocwrote:

i see no advantages when compared to a standard rap extension...

Not that there's a whole lot of difference that matters in any practical sense, but the "standard" extensions I know all involve a knot that can be extremely hard to undo.  And if it isn't undone, then the user is employing a "special-purpose" sling which is some kind of silly efficiency no-no for some folks.

So if you are going to unknot your rap extension to return it to general use, then attaching the rap device with a girth or clove hitch is the more "advantageous" approach. I don't think we have any information suggesting that one of the girth and clove hitches is superior.

Although I think the issue of redundancy with rap tethers is of cosmic insignificance, clipping the tether back to the belay loop provides redundancy with any method in which the carabiner is fixed in place on the tether.  The only non-redundant arrangement is one of the "standard" ones in which the carabiner can slide back and forth below a knot in the sling.

So all told, the "standard" method loses out on at least one count and, depending on what "standard" means, possibly two counts.

rgoldwrote:

Not that there's a whole lot of difference that matters in any practical sense, but the "standard" extensions I know all involve a knot that can be extremely hard to undo.  And if it isn't undone, then the user is employing a "special-purpose" sling which is some kind of silly efficiency no-no for some folks

The knot only sees body weight, so unless you are doing something wrong, there should be no difficulty in untying the knot. Even an overhand in a dyneema runner is easily undone.  if you are that concerned, tie an 8.

And as you stated, I don’t think there needs to be a ton of emphasis on having a redundant rap setup. Rap accidents happen because people don’t tie knots in their ropes or don’t use 3rd hands...not because their connection point fails. 

And as you stated, I don’t think there needs to be a ton of emphasis on having a redundant rap setup. Rap accidents happen because people don’t tie knots in their ropes or don’t use 3rd hands...not because their connection point fails. 

The was a death in the Winds this summer that was heavily discussed on MP that was specifically related to connection point failing (in this case because of rock fall). 

In regards to the original question it makes more sense to tie a clove onto the carabiner instead of a girth hitch, girth hitches tend to slip more, can be harder to untie and reduce the strength of the webbing by 10% more than a clove. But since OP is girthing sling to harness anyway strength of sling has already been reduced to ~50% anyway.  

Ghostface Sprayerwrote:

The was a death in the Winds this summer that was heavily discussed on MP that was specifically related to connection point failing (in this case because of rock fall).

Absolutely horrible accident...

if I remember correctly, it was anchor webbing that was cut and not the connection between the climber and a descent device...but I could be wrong.

curt86irocwrote:

Absolutely horrible accident...

if I remember correctly, it was anchor webbing that was cut and not the connection between the climber and a descent device...but I could be wrong.

More to the point, any rock that might fall and slice a rap extension/tether could be expected to pretty readily slice two strands of material, too. I don't think redundancy will really mean much in that case. But if that extra strand is what prevents a fatal rockfall accident, well, the universe is chaos, but apparently the universe also picks favorites.