"No Fall" Zones

Curious to see how people physically and mentally treat "no fall" zones. Either super runout, gnarly swing, big ledge, deck potential, bad gear, or a combination of those.

Personally, I climb a LOT slower, and even though I think I'm paying attention to my technique more, I tend to not trust my feet and since I'm climbing slow with most of my weight on my hands, I get pretty pumped.

I've seen some people climb better because they know it matters, and others climb way worse and get super desperate with poor technique. Curious to hear what you guys do and if you have any good stories.

Most of the time I totally avoid no fall zones, as a sport climber with plenty of safe bolted climbing available. But there have been times when I get myself in that situation or just get scared enough that it feels like a "no fall zone" and my reaction is a bit mixed. I get shakier, so if it's slab or really precise movements I'm not as good. My extreme caffeine consumption doesn't help with that either. But if it's overhanging and powerful then I pull so much harder than normal and can really commit to big moves and just not let go. Also, if it's so far below my limit that I know I won't fall, then I don't even really think about it at all and just climb like normal

i've taught myself not to think about it. i had a horrible experience once where, in a no fall zone, i got into my own head and started going down the path of my kids not having a father... it was really upsetting and i ended up in this terrible self-deprecating cycle...all while trying not to fall.

after that, when i do find myself in a no fall zone, i try real hard just to concentrate on the climbing moves. slow down, breathe, be precise, be deliberate and it will all be ok.

Every climb is a no-fall zone to the first bolt or piece of pro.

David McLeod talks about this in his "How to climb trad" video series. He has an interesting take on it that I feel is often misunderstood (he isn't saying to go free solo everything), but it was an interesting perspective that changed how I approach certain aspects of my own climbing.

Matt Kelly wrote:

I've seen some people climb better because they know it matters, and others climb way worse and get super desperate with poor technique.

I've had both experiences, largely based on where I am mentally before starting the route. 

I think it's valuable to take a lot of falls in yes-fall situations. A lot of traddies don't. If you don't know how to fall, and how far you're going to end up below your last piece, your idea of a no-fall zone might not be accurate. This could either be paralyzing (mentally) if you think you're in a no fall zone (but you're not) or paralyzing (physically) if you think you're in a yes-fall zone (but you're not)...

Not trying to start a trad vs sport debate. It's a perfectly valid approach to use 'the leader must not fall' mentality etc., but I really enjoy being able to push into yes-fall zones without the ability to downclimb or feel 100% about my ability to get to the next protection, and learning to fall well is how I have been able to do that (mostly) safely. 

Personally, I handle no-fall zones by avoiding them unless they are very, very far below my onsight climbing level. And I stick clip almost every sport route. Rip on me all you want but I have a fun time every time I go climbing. I've pulled on enough scary choss and runout routes in my life. "Fuck that shit" is always a valid option.

This is a topic I'm really curious about as well, more specifically how the hell do people lead super run out slab routes? The kind where there might be one bolt/gear placement on a 100' pitch. 

My experience with climbing in no fall zones is mostly trad climbing on moderate routes where it's not always possible or feasible to protect from hitting a ledge if you fall. I think those instances have been valuable in learning how to climb up and check out the next moves/gear while not fully committing to continuing upwards, and being able to down climb to the closest secure stance if needed. With that being said, it's definitely not a situation I enjoy being in, but I think it's impossible to avoid really. 

I think it's also important to note that pretty much all sport routes have no fall zones on them, ie falling while pulling up rope to clip the second bolt, falling before the first bolt, etc. 

curt86iroc wrote:

i've taught myself not to think about it. i had a horrible experience once where, in a no fall zone, i got into my own head and started going down the path of my kids not having a father... it was really upsetting and i ended up in this terrible self-deprecating cycle...all while trying not to fall.

after that, when i do find myself in a no fall zone, i try real hard just to concentrate on the climbing moves. slow down, breathe, be precise, be deliberate and it will all be ok.

Funny, when I'm feeling (or objectively) run-out, I consciously pretend I'm actually one of my kids (and not actually myself) in this situation. I then climb exactly as I would want my kid to climb in this dangerous situation, giving myself positive talk as if I were talking to my kid. Along the lines of "hey bud, you can climb so much harder than these moves require, so just trust yourself and commit to the next moves." I literally become my kid, and the mental trick is that because I would want my kid to stay calm and make the moves, I then do the same thing myself. Funny how we are often kinder to people besides ourselves, and believe in them more than ourselves.... 

No tricks. Read the rock so you have a high confidence level and focus. Don't climb differently, just better.

Agree with others on headspace before venturing upwards.

Also climbing a lot of rock consistently helps. 

Three points of contact climbing combined with being smooth and accurate.  I also have learned that having audible and controlled breathing allows me to control my emotions better.  Being completely laser focused in the movement helps too.

Eric Chabot wrote:

I think it's valuable to take a lot of falls in yes-fall situations. A lot of traddies don't. If you don't know how to fall, and how far you're going to end up below your last piece, your idea of a no-fall zone might not be accurate. This could either be paralyzing (mentally) if you think you're in a no fall zone (but you're not) or paralyzing (physically) if you think you're in a yes-fall zone (but you're not)...

Not trying to start a trad vs sport debate. It's a perfectly valid approach to use 'the leader must not fall' mentality etc., but I really enjoy being able to push into yes-fall zones without the ability to downclimb or feel 100% about my ability to get to the next protection, and learning to fall well is how I have been able to do that (mostly) safely. 

Personally, I handle no-fall zones by avoiding them unless they are very, very far below my onsight climbing level. And I stick clip almost every sport route. Rip on me all you want but I have a fun time every time I go climbing. I've pulled on enough scary choss and runout routes in my life. "Fuck that shit" is always a valid option.

While I agree with your advice to take lots of falls in yes-fall situations, I think it's worth noting that this really is a different skill from keeping your head in no-fall zones. I reached a point earlier this year where my head game in no-fall zones where I could definitely pull the moves was really good, where my head game in yes-fall zones where I might fall was really bad. After really working on it this season and taking, among other falls, a real 30 foot trad whipper while really pushing myself to pull a move, I'm really okay with whipping in yes-fall zones--but now I'm having trouble with no-fall zones.

I start humming some atrocious earworm of a song every time. Like I'm a Barbie Girl', Rebecca Black's 'Friday' or anything by Phish.
I wish i were kidding, but i'm not.

Brandon Fields wrote:

I start humming some atrocious earworm of a song every time. Like I'm a Barbie Girl', Rebecca Black's 'Friday' or anything by Phish.
I wish i were kidding, but i'm not.

My recent no-fall zone mental playlist:

1. Another one bites the dust
2. Sweet Caroline
3. Kiss from a rose
4. Someone Like You (Adele)
5. Pieces of Me (Ashlee Simpson)

It's a thing. A bad thing.

This is what pops up in my head in no fall zones, quite the motivating chorus haha. All of my trad climbing takes place in no fall zones haha. But I'm usually on moderate terrain and somewhat stoned, so all I have to do is tell myself "you can't fall here, so don't" and then it becomes an impossibility in my head. 

This is where mountaineering experience can help, I feel so much more secure on solid rock routes than on insecure, gravelstrewn  sloping ledges or rotten ridges. Having a partner that can get you to the ground and get help versus Joe Simpsoning it out of the hills is a huge confidence boost as well.  You really need to get in touch with how you are doing before you get into that situation and make an appropriate decision to continue or come back another day.  Gaining that experience is part of what climbing is to me and it wasn't always smoothly done.  Some days I can maintain my poise under much more pressure than others. On a good day its easy to keep cool and on a bad day I've learned to back off quickly.  

David K wrote:

My recent no-fall zone mental playlist:

1. Another one bites the dust
2. Sweet Caroline
3. Kiss from a rose
4. Someone Like You (Adele)
5. Pieces of Me (Ashlee Simpson)

It's a thing. A bad thing.

No way! Kiss from a Rose is one of my all time go to eat worms! Nice!

Lots of good comments above.  Of course, an option is to not buy into the "No Fall" zone:

• escape an easier way;
• down-lead, cleaning as you descend;
• bail off gear, and then spend some time figuring out how to recover it.  :)

I tend to avoid getting into the no fall zone but sometimes you have to. I assess the gear placements and figure out the moves before Icommit to the no fall zone. Take a breath and get into a moment of zen - then commit focusing on the movement until you arrive at the next placement. For me, the brief pause and the "ok let's do this" is key to avoiding getting wigged out in the thick of it.

I generally treat them no differently than any other time I am leading. With the exception of very easy routes well below my grade or projecting a well protected move, I aim to stay calm and make calculated, high percentage moves anytime I climb. I have a good headspace where I am climbing up to the next piece of gear, not above my last piece of gear (if that makes sense). I have been able to convince the subconscious part of my brain that usually the best way out of these situations is to keep going up.

To say that another way: I don't climb any differently when I'm in a "no fall zone". But if a route has a "no fall zone" I probably won't get on it unless I am confident I can climb it without falling. I push myself on G rated sport climbs, not R/X trad.