Denali gear critique
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Edit 1/3/21: REVISED GEAR LIST following some end of year shopping Hey guys, I'll be going up Denali in May (starting on the 20th), but with some sales already starting, I was hoping to complete my shopping soon. I'd really appreciate your feedback if you have a chance. Here's what I have or am thinking of getting. - Upper: Patagonia Tropic 2 sunshirt > Smartwool Merino 250 quarter zip > R1 Full zip > Marmot Variant Jacket > Rab Xenon > OR Ferrosi Windbreaker > Mountain Equipment K7 Parka > OR Interstellar shell jacket - Lower: Smartwool Merino 250 > R1 pants > OR Cirque 2 > RAB Photon Pant > Mountain Hardware Ozonic Rain Pant - Feet: G2SM + Forty Below Purple Haze Overboots + Western Mountaineering Expedition Down Booties + socks (2 x REI Liners, 1 pairx medium smartwool merino socks, 1x smartwool mountaineering, 1xDarnTough Mountaineering ) + Ezeefit 3mm ankle booties (to wear lower on the glacier with thinner socks) - Hands: 1xTNF eTip + 1xSmartWool Merino 250 > OR Extravert > BD Guide Gloves > OR Alti Mitts - Sleeping system: Western Mountaineering Bison (-40F) stuffed in a 30l Sea-to-summit bag + Therm-a-Rest NeoAir XTherm Max + Therm-a-Rest Z Lite Sol Mattress, - Head: Smartwool Merino 250 beanie, REI Wind Pro Balaclava, Julbo Aerospace Reactiv 1-3 Goggles + Julbo Explorer 2.0 Glacier Glasses Reactiv High Mountain 2-4 (former Camel), Beko nose cover -> I need a neoprene mask - Climbing: Petzl Altitude Harness, Petzl Vasak crampons, Petzl Sirocco helmet, Petzl Summit 2 axe - Pack: Ospray Xenith 105 A couple of questions: 1. Are there any glaring gaps? I do tend to run on the cold side. Any suggestions for better options? 2. The BD Guide gloves have little room left for a thin liner and sometimes my hands get stuck going in. Any better options out there? 3. Any recommendations for a duffel bag and neoprene mask? |
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One thought on packs. You can’t haul big loads with a tiny car. 7 lbs for a 100 L pack is not outrageous if it’s a comfortable pack. |
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Take this with a grain of salt as I haven't done denali. However, I've done quite a bit of cold weather mountaineering and spent time on glaciers. Most glaring issue to me is pant selection. Glaciers get super hot and even on denali (so I have heard). Hiking in those bibs (that look more resort skiing geared than climbing) sounds hellish. I'd get a softshell pant that's comfortable to hike in when it's warm. I have a pair of cirques and they are bomber. A bit warm though, my new favorite are the TNF white summit series softshell. Lighter weight and cooler but a bit less weather resistant. + Bring a lightweight hardshell pant with full side zips to add. I love ferrosi jackets and have worn out 2 cragging/hiking/skiing. I don't think they offer great weather resistance and are kinda heavy. My new favorite is the thin BD softshell. Super light and mostly windproof. (Spacing the name RN, dawn patrol? First light?) I know you run cold so not my call but G2SMs are pretty damn warm. Surprised if you need overboots as they are a noticeable stepup from other 6000m boots. Other stuff looks good. Hard to go wrong with FF gear and that k7 jacket is sweet. I'm always tempted to get one ha. |
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Get the Peregrine mostly because you will never use Snow Goose but once. For that matter you will hardly use the Peregrine. I have used mine on several trips to the AK range. My wife loves it for cold camping in the lower 48. Look on fleabay as one can usually find good deals on "used once" for Denali gear. A FF Front Point (Khumbu) just sold for $350. |
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-(negative)20 bag was fine for me -take a look at the Eddie Bauer guide gloves (not guide lite) as your medium option. These might be my favorite gloves ever and can be found on super deals all the time -bring a buff -I used a Denali pro by Gregory. I had a ton of use on that pack and always loved it. Wasn’t ever mad at the size of it (it’s big) -for hardshell pants, for me I’ve always gone full side zip over bibs so I can put them on without taking anything else off
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Mountain Hardware South Col is an excellent pack for your purpose. |
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greggrylls wrote: This for sure, plus a pair of puffy pants for hanging around camp up high, or extra for the legs in your sleeping g bag. Also, the -25 bag is fine, no need for that -50 IMHO. You can always sleep in your down parka/synthetic pants combo if it’s that cold, and if it is that cold, your not going anywhere anyhow... |
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Here's speculation from someone who hasn't done Denali. It's worth exactly what you're paying for it :-) I'm presuming this is for the West Buttress. I think TL;DR your whole list of modern gear is very reasonable and people have been getting up this hill with lesser equipment for a long time.
All fine I'm sure. I would bring a sun hoody for the lower glacier. I personally prefer a 100% poly fleece for a midlayer because they tend to dry faster but you've already got the R1 and lots of people love the stretchy body hugging fit. I'd just stick with it. Rab looks like just a basic down sweater, if that's the one you want then proceed. Every manufacturer makes one. I personally prefer synthetic if you'll use it as an active layer. But probably you're not going to be moving super fast at altitude (by the time you need this layer on the move), and lots of people use down with good success in summer expeditions. If it were me, I tend to replace the softshell with a windshirt type deal on longer trips. Lighter, more packable, practically serves the same function in a layering system, just suboptimal for chimney climbing which doesn't tend to be an issue on glacier climbs. I like the Arc Squamish. There are lots of options out there Houdini Air, Kor Preshell, BD Alpine Start etc... I like parkas with a breathable shell because they dry faster. The ones you listed have a coated shell. Certainly they don't suck. I'd lean towards a Montane Alpine 850 or Grade VII. Doubt it'll cost you a summit either way. Hardshell I'd bring the lightest/most packable one as I doubt it would leave my pack. I guess liquid precip on the lower glacier is possible in the Summer but doesn't seem like a super likely issue. - Lower: Merino 250 (have) > R1 pants (have) > TNF Freedom Bibs (just got) > FF Volant down pants (didn't get yet) Fine. I like the R1 pants and I wore them in AK. I had a tailor shorten mine to knickers and cut out the pockets for $20. If it's cold enough to put those on while active I'm wearing boots. My mediums are down to 8oz and a bit more packable. Nano Air pants probably pack smaller. A lot of people have already opined about your shell layer choice so I won't belabor the point but I agree I wouldn't want hardshell bibs for my only pair of pants. I might not bring a hardshell at all, or do something "in-between" like Neoshell. Puffy pants, sure FF don't make junk. They tend to get a bit wetter than a jacket (shoveling, building snow walls etc..) so could consider synthetic (eg MH Compressor). But you'll have lots of daylight and time/capacity to dry things so down isn't crazy. - Feet: G2SM (don't have yet) + Forty Below Purple Haze Overboots (don't have yet) + need to decide on crampons (my old pair bit the dust) 6-7km boot + overboots seems like pretty standard issue. If the G2's are the ones that work for you, not much else to say. Wouldn't agonize over the crampons for the West Buttress, you're going for a snowy walk. I'd bring steel dual points, probably horizontals but vert would be OK if you want to buy a more versatile pair for a technical objective. Bring your boots to the shop and find a model that fits well.
Gloves are personal. I like OR designs but BD fit me better. Rab also make nice gloves since you seem to like the brand. I would bring several pairs of liners. They get wet and it's nice to never have to barehand anything when it's cold. Don't weigh much. I like OR Aretes as a midweight glove personally. The softshell/synthetic palms dry much faster than leather. The palm probably isn't as durable as leather but I don't think you'll do too much damage on this climb. It's maybe not the one you'd choose to rappel 20 rope lengths. They come with a liner. The Japanese fishing gloves are all the rage these days and inexpensive, could try those. They have one coming out with an actual gauntlet this year. They are very waterproof but not particularly dextrous or warm. I size up and wear liners with them. I would just try on a bunch and find one that's reasonable dextrous. You've already got the Guides lined up for the clumsy oh-shit gloves. Altis are good and you have them.
I'd do a -20F and layer up inside if necessary. I like the TNF Inferno series personally (though I don't otherwise like TNF). I like the center zip. Easy to sit up and do tent chores while staying toasty in your bag. If the center zip doesn't appeal to you I like Western Mountaineering. Puma MF would treat you well. Breathable shell (same reasoning as the parka) VS the FF. - Pack: I'm lost here. I know what are all the options in the 75-100l range. The only one that is under 6lbs but offers good comfort is the Exped Expedition 80 or 100 but there are no reviews and the price is crazy. Everything else is either 6-7 lbs or uncomfortable from what I can tell. I can't imagine ever using a 100L pack when the terrain is sled-friendly most of the way, but I think it depends on how compact you manage to make the rest of your kit that you're hauling to high camps (tent, cooking system). So I'd be looking at the 70L end of the range. BD Mission, Osprey Aether Pro look reasonable and are popular. I buy custom packs for my outdoor hobbies whenever possible for a variety of reasons but I don't see much functional benefit unless you know what you want and it can't be found off the rack.
http://maxneale.blogspot.com/2016/08/gear-list-for-denali-mountaineering.html |
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Seek Outside makes some quite large packs that are in the 3-4 lb range. They’re designed for hauling heavy hunting loads and can stow tons of gear. |
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Early may I would do the -40. I arrived on the glacier may 6th and also sleep cold. Was glad to have the -40. Later may and -25 is probably good.
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As others have said it gets hot on Denali. You essentially need two setups: low mountain and high mountain. ++++ Sun Hoody. I like the Voormi Merino Wool and Patagonia Tropic Comfort ++++ Lightweight soft shells are a must. You can always throw on long underneath but when it feels like 80 degrees on a the glacier and you are dragging your sled you will be happy to have thinner ones. My favorite is the Arcteryx Gamma AR or similar non-membrane softshell. Parkas. Both of your suggestions are warm. I have a K7 Jacket and like it though it runs a little smaller than other brands. Also have a Patagonia Grade VII which is a bit warmer for the same weight. Other layers. The other top layers that I bring are a light breathable windshirt(BD alpine start or ME Squall) + 2 lightweight synthetic puffies for action layers(I use the Nano Air Light and Nano Air hoodies). Goretex: As light as possible. Marmot precip would even work. You encounter so little rain on denali. Pack options: You really only need a big pack for two days on the mountain. Those days are moving to high camp and then coming down the fixed lines from high camp. I recommend a 75-80L pack. I use the Montbell Expedition 80L with lid. Other good options are the BD Mission 75. Hyperlite 4400 Ice is a little small but if your tent is small then you can probably make it work. Boots: I have slightly above average warmth in my feet and do not bring overboots with my G2SM. If you run cold then bring them. Also trip dependent, if it's early May then you may need more kit. Sleeping Bag: I have a Feathered Friends -25 overstuffed. Love it. Gloves: Just make sure they fit well and you have decent enough dexterity aka can operate ascender/carabiners. |
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Hey Dan! You're going to have a blast - Here's what I brought for my first trip: Denali Gear List (West Butt, Rib, Cassin Ridge) |
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A few thoughts based on two trips, 14 and 16 years ago, both on the "tourist" route: - used -20F bag and that seemed plenty for a mid May and late May trips. Got stuck in a storm at the 17k camp for 3 nights and still seemed good enough - I could always wear additional layers. The biggest reason for me to go with -20F was that I can occasionally use it elsewhere, whereas a -40F would truly be one-time use. Unfortunately I gave up on Himalayan dreams :-) - I used hardshell pants with full zips and was just venting a lot on the lower glacier when the weather was nice. Softshell pants would have been nice but it would be extra weight and I did not find them necessary. Plus, I did not have any at the time, so that make the decision easy. I would not bring TNF Freedom - I don't think they vent well enough. Unless you combine with sofshell pants for lower on the mountain. - Used a 75L pack the first time, wished for more space so bought a 85L Gregory Palisade for the second trip and it was fine. I was hauling most of our common gear on that second trip (tent, etc.) and still was fine. - you seem to be bringing a lot of layers. I just had a LS poly Tshirt, fleece, windstopper softshell jacket, very simple hardshell jacket and warm down jacket/parka. Spent a lot of time in just the Tshirt lower down on the glacier. For legs, one pair of thin long johns, one pair of thicker fleece long johns and these hardshell pants. - I used plastic Koflach boots - like I said, this was about 15 years ago :-) You will have a great time. Two of my favorite trips. |
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CalvinM wrote: One does not essentially need two setups. One needs to layer correctly. For instance, a mid-weight base layer can be worn alone when it is warn. It should be white so not to absorb heat. After that a fleece layer works well especially one with full zips. If the temp drops or the winds picks up or it starts snowing toss on hard sell. Again with full zips one can regulate their temp. |
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Allen Sanderson wrote: Perhaps, I should have phrased my sentence thus: You need your kit to work for the two extremes(and in between) that you could experience on a trip to west buttress. The two extremes being possibly hot and sweaty travel low on the mountain and cold conditions on the upper mountain. |
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That we agree upon, except it really does not matter the hill. IMHO one of the biggest mistakes people make is not having a light colored base layer. When low down on the glacier or approach and it is cooking out wearing a dark layer is dumb. A light colored layer is the best way to go, unless ya like sweating like a large farm animal. |
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I did Denali way back in 1990 (guided traverse) so my choices means little today. One recommendation is that having to carry much of anything on the outside of your pack sucks. A few more liters in a pack adds very little weight and makes life a good bit more simple. Also all my clothing is large or extra large so more pack is needed than for a guy wearing medium sizes. I like the idea of taking all your gear to the store and loading it into different packs and carrying them around in the store - sure that's a pain but might be very worthwhile. |
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I'll echo suggestions for softshell pant (in conjunction with lightweight full-side zip hard shell), light-colored sun hoody, and synthetic puffy pants. Also suggest some down or synthetic socks to wear inside your overboots for use as camp shoes. Being in your boots all the time would suck (assuming you're doing West Butt). It was noted early about packs and load weight. I used a Gregory Massif, which was quite heavy, but also very comfortable. The later more important to me as I have a bad back. TETO |
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I wore softshell pants (Arcteryx Procline) the entire time on Denali. I had minimalist hardshell rain pants to wear over them, but never used them. Softshell blocked the wind enough and I controlled lower body warmth via base layer layering as well as the vents. Down pants (Volant) were only used in camp but absolutely recommended for that purpose since there is a LOT of downtime on Denali and you want to be comfy. Pack: I used a BD Mission 75 and was happy with it. The gear loops on the side work great for attaching the sled-pull cord. I actually have ended up using this pack for other things since it's quite versatile (eg. carried a rope, rack, and tent when climbing the grand teton with my SO this year). Upper layering was Base Layer, R1 hoody, Nano Air hoody, then a minimalist shell (Westcomb equivalent of OR Insterstellar). I ended up wearing the nano air as my outer layer a lot since we were lucky to not have a lot of wind early in our trip. Brought a Ghost Whisperer hoody as well for moving but I only wore it on summit day above Denali Pass, probably could have done without it and just put the parka on at that point. Mostly used the hoods to control head temperature, we did not bring helmets so that was a good strategy. If you have a helmet it may be annoying. With regard to the parka, would recommend getting one that has an independent bottom zipper (like most used for ice climbing belaying) so that you can un-zip the bottom to mess around with your harness etc if you end up moving with the parka on. I used the Rab Positron and it's great. |
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Chris Rice wrote: This post is spot on. A large pack lets one stuff crap in there and not worry about packing it all nice and tight. The compression strap on the outside will do that. More over when you need something, like when the wind is blowing 50 mph, you can rummage around and not take crap out. The main issue with a large pack is that it will not get used but rarely. |
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wisam wrote: Agreed on all items. IMO Sleeping cold and trying to make up for it with others clothes never fully works and you don’t get the comfortable sleep your body needs. I have the FF -40 Snowy Owl (warmer than you want?) but it is the most amazing sack you will own and compresses small (amazingly). Also my wife is now glad she has my FF sack for our winter ski/camping trips with the kiddos. I am glad I never sold it after doing a bunch of my winter mountaineering trips in the cascades. Sadly it appears the price has more than doubled since I bought mine up in their Seattle store. |