Finally fell on a tricam

Baby trad here with 30-40 leads, a year of ground work, and then about a year of leading mostly socal desert routes.  Still developing mental game. Love tricams, but always weary about falling on them. 

Attempting not to run out / prevent deck on a short 5.8 repeat. Placed a brown (0.75 range) tricam after nothing else ( cams / nuts) worked and after getting pumped trying to place cams. 2.7 out of 5 ( mix of rock quality and placement - 1 lobe was only 1/2-2/3 ideal). Started to move past piece and fell 5-6ft total, it held awesome. 

Checked it as I climbed past it, looked good. Cleaning it really gave me confidence, just solid and superset, but cleaned well enough. 

2 questions:

1. I prefer to protect vs run out. But can see this being an issue on harder routes 5.9 or greater. What do you do?

2. What's been your experience falling on tricams?

Get stronger. Seriously. If pumping out whilst adequately protecting is a serious concern, then climb more stuff that's easier until the pump clock is no longer an issue. Getting better with the gear you carry will help with that.  If a tricam is easier to place than a cam, you're not nearly familiar enough with your gear. That may mean learning the sizes better. That may mean learning to recognize a nut placement vs a tricam placement vs a cam placement. Finally, get better at identifying good stances to place protection from. If you're pumping out while placing gear on a 5.8, you've probably missed something, or skipped a good stance.

When I'm near my limit, I'll place gear about once a body length. Essentially as soon as my feet pass my last piece, I want to have a good placement. But I also learn to recognize when the climbing is about to get hard, and place gear just before that.

Fwiw, I haven't placed many tricam because the rock I tend to climb on takes cams just as well.

Petsfed 00 wrote:

Get stronger. Seriously. If pumping out whilst adequately protecting is a serious concern, then climb more stuff that's easier until the pump clock is no longer an issue.

Well that just won't work. You won't build endurance without doing routes that require endurance.

If the pump clock is never an issue, you're climbing below your potential. What you're saying is essentially, "don't push grades on trad".

Getting better with the gear you carry will help with that.  If a tricam is easier to place than a cam, you're not nearly familiar enough with your gear.

That's simply not true. There are plenty of pockets, huecos, and pebbly cracks which take a tricam easily, but won't take a cam, period.

Fwiw, I haven't placed many tricam because the rock I tend to climb on takes cams just as well.

By all means, don't let a lack of experience keep you from having an opinion and sharing it!

Greg Sidberry wrote:

Baby trad here with 30-40 leads, a year of ground work, and then about a year of leading mostly socal desert routes.  Still developing mental game. Love tricams, but always weary about falling on them. 

Attempting not to run out / prevent deck on a short 5.8 repeat. Placed a brown (0.75 range) tricam after nothing else ( cams / nuts) worked and after getting pumped trying to place cams. 2.7 out of 5 ( mix of rock quality and placement - 1 lobe was only 1/2-2/3 ideal). Started to move past piece and fell 5-6ft total, it held awesome. 

Checked it as I climbed past it, looked good. Cleaning it really gave me confidence, just solid and superset, but cleaned well enough. 

2 questions:

1. I prefer to protect vs run out. But can see this being an issue on harder routes 5.9 or greater. What do you do?

2. What's been your experience falling on tricams?

It sounds like you placed a decent tricam and gave it the ultimate test by making it do what it's intended to do: catch a fall.

1. The decision on whether to protect or not is a bit complex. How easy is the climbing? Is it a good stance? Is there protection even available? When will the next protection be available? What are the falls like from where you are? Do you have enough gear for the rest of the route? All of these questions have an impact on the decision to protect, continue on, or back down.
   
   Eventually you'll be in situations where no protection is available, where protection won't really help, where placing protection would cause you to pump out and fall and climbing another few reasonable moves would get you to an easy stance, or where you're almost out of gear and there's a hard section above--all of these might cause you not to protect even if you're already run out. On the flipside, don't be afraid to put in a second piece in the same area if you've got only one between you and the ground, or if you're launching into a hard section, or if your first piece isn't that good.
   
   Above all, think about what you're doing and evaluate the whole situation. There are no hard and fast rules that will always keep you safe--you have to think through the situation yourself. Given you walked away from the situation okay, it sounds like you did that fine.
2. I fell a bunch on tricams taking practice falls in safe situations, and a few times (maybe three?) in actual climbs (not for practice). Smaller sizes (black/pink) sometimes get fixed when you fall on them (slipping a nut tool behind the fulcrum point can be hard if you've seated that point in some sort of indentation--which is the kind of situation where I'd place them often). Other than that, they're much like any other pro: if they're placed well they catch you.
   
   That said, 90% of the time a cam will be easier/faster to place and just as bomber. On easy trad in the Gunks I used to be really psyched on tricams--they really do work everywhere here. But now that I'm climbing stuff that requires placing gear while hanging on hands, I don't carry tricams unless I know I'll need them, or I can see huecos from the ground (sometimes happens on Southern sandstone). When nothing else fits, though, they can be a real lifesaver.

Greg Sidberry wrote:

1. I prefer to protect vs run out. But can see this being an issue on harder routes 5.9 or greater. What do you do?

2. What's been your experience falling on tricams?

1. It's an issue on any route that's above your strength/technique level. A brand new climber might pump out on 5.6 because they don't know how to use their feet on a stance, and an experienced climber knows how to double kneebar to place gear on their gnarly 13 proj. The general sage advice is push your gear/lead head or your physical ability one at a time, not both at the same time. If gear is fiddly or sparse, stay within your physical/technique ability. If gear is good and easy to place well, then push it and take some falls.

2. Took a big one on a red after getting into flaky, off-route face climbing. I can still remember the desperation in my voice as I told my belayer that I'm going to bomb off - it held and cleaned beautifully.

David K wrote:

Well that just won't work. You won't build endurance without doing routes that require endurance.

If the pump clock is never an issue, you're climbing below your potential. What you're saying is essentially, "don't push grades on trad".

That's simply not true. There are plenty of pockets, huecos, and pebbly cracks which take a tricam easily, but won't take a cam, period.

By all means, don't let a lack of experience keep you from having an opinion and sharing it!

Leading trad isn't weight training. You build endurance by operating in a hard-ish zone for a long time, not by operating in a very hard zone until you fall.

If you're climbing 5.8 as your limit, you're spending a lot of time in situations where it isn't safe to fall, period.

If you want to build endurance, you need mileage, not pure difficulty. Otherwise, we'd all just focus on bouldering hard.

As far as tricams, if the placement will take a cam and a tricam equally well, the cam will always be faster. That the op placed nuts and cams and failed, then turned to tricams means they are not proficient enough with any of them to be in a situation where speed of placement matters. Honestly, tricam-only placements are the fastest tricam placements, in my opinion. But if you don't recognize it as a tricam placement, that's the skill you need to work on.

Well, quite frankly, if a route is 5.8 or often 5.9, you should be able to climb it without the pump clock really being an issue. I don't say that in any sort of condescending manner. Maybe less true at 5.9, some sandbags from way back when 5.10 trad was more or less a tabou grade may carry over and be "modern" 5.10 in reality, so that may depend on where you climb. But still, for the most part, still true.

If a climb forces you to make strenuous placements over long stretches without decent rests & shakes, then pretty much by definition it won't be 5.8 or 5.9. What I'm saying here isn't that "if you're fit/strong enough, you won't pump out on that". What I am saying is that with proper technique and body positioning, you will 95% of the time at those grade be able to find position that allow you to stand and alternate hand with a loose enough grip so that you won't pump out. Maybe you can stem or get such good foot jam that hands are only really needed for balance with a loose grip. Of course you may get to a 5.9 that has a strenuous section where what I just said doesn't hold true, but:

• if it's really strenuous, it can't last that long, otherwise it would be 5.10
• if it's really long, individual moves & placement can't be all that strenuous, otherwise it would be 5.10
• therefore the key is to understand, for those trickier 5.9, which one it is and plan you strategy accordingly

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My suggestion to you therefore would be not so much to try to get stronger/fitter, but rather to become more efficient. The added bonus to that is that it'll carry out to some degrees on higher grades. Yes a 5.10 trad may be strenuous from start to finish, but a number of those will be 5.10 because of one or a few sections of it, meaning that in between you're likely to have easier climbing, and thus your learnings about climbing more efficiently will carry over for those sections, allowing to recover/not get pump for the strenuous section you cannot avoid.

How to do that? A few ideas....

• Climb slower. Between moves, take the time to try to find the most comfortable position, by adjusting feet, body positionning, etc. Are you overgripping right now? Loosen your grip a little. Can you alternate hand on that stance (so you can shake out & rest somewhat)? Do so. Try to refine your current stance until you're pretty sure this is the most comfortable that stance can get. Chalk up. Try to understand what you did to make that stance more comfortable, compared to your "instinctive" body positioning when you just got there.
• Break your placements into a few steps. What I mean by this is that sometimes we're in a rush to place a piece in. Sometimes you should rush. But most of the time, you're at a decent stance and you've got time. So take it. Maybe take a cam out with one hand, and just put it in approximately. Switch hand. Maybe chalk up. Make it a good placement. Want to extend it? Switch hand before taking the draw. Maybe enjoy the view & breath deep. Maybe switch hand again before clipping. This will prevent you from way-overpumping your left arm, say, because you did all the previous steps with your right and before you realize it, you've just spent 30 seconds hanging on a single arm and are now just wasted. Similarly, you misjudged the size? Once again, switch hand before trying another one.
• Examine the placement a little bit longer before putting something in. Maybe you'll notice important details about the crack you hadn't at first - maybe a better constriction, maybe the back is wider than the front, maybe it would be a good nut placement after all.
• There's nothing wrong to downclimbing a few moves if you're not sure. Maybe you went up to explore holds or gear options, and maybe you're still not sure what you want to do and are getting pumped. Just back off to a decent stance, shake out, mull it over, chalk up, and try again. IMO the pace of trad climbing in the lower grad is fundamentally different from that of sport climbing. More like chess game than a first person shooter, if you see what I mean.
  
  

The nice thing about the above is that you don't have to work on those at your limit. Try to be as efficient as you can even on climbs below you level. To develop a good mechanic, you don't have to be at your limit. In fact, I would argue it may even be easier to do so below your limit (so maybe 5.7/5.6 in your case). Because then you have the space to think things over and analyzer what you're doing as you're doing it.

Then sometimes you don't really have a choice - one of the 2 options above (a short strenuous section, or a longer but still sustained section). In those cases....

For a short strenuous crux: double up on gear beforehand. There's nothing wrong with building yourself a mini-anchor before the crux. If that gets your head in the right place, why not?

• It will help you not over-grip and not panic during the crux, thus saving energy
• It will remove the need for you to place a piece right in the middle of the crux, in a desparate position where maybe you can't switch hand, and HAVE to get the size right the first time, etc.
• Then aim to place after the crux only, once you get a semi-decent stance at least to place from.

For longer, less strenuous but still sustained sections: IMO those are the real test of your skills at the grade. No magic tricks here, but:

• Place pieces closer toghether. Maybe you have to put another piece while the previous one is barely at your knee. That's fine - decent chances you'll blow it here, so have pieces closer together.
• Study the section beforehand if you can from a decent stance (or the ground). Try to spot the likeliest spot to find gear with minimum effort, then gun for those.
• Consider rappeling down it, or aid your way up. Nothing forces you to try everything onsight. Work the gear on rappel, so that you know what you'll place once you get there.
• Remember to breath deep. I find that breathing deep & conciously helps me avoid overgripping and getting overly tense.

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Final note - I don't know what type of rock you climb. However for my part I've rarely HAD to place tricams. I find them harder to place, imo at least a energy/time consuming as nuts. Maybe you have no other options sometimes. But perhaps there also are other options you're overlooking. I like them for anchors-building, because if you're building an anchor generally you'll have some sort of belay stance, so it cancels out their drawbacks.

Greg Sidberry wrote:

1. I prefer to protect vs run out. But can see this being an issue on harder routes 5.9 or greater. What do you do?

2. What's been your experience falling on tricams?

1.  As someone getting comfortable on 5.9-5.10, I actually find the routes to be safer overall.  Less ledges, steeper, cleaner falls.  I'm also gravitating towards routes with good protection opportunities as I'm pushing my comfort level and would suggest the same.  I'm also a weenie who will never climb near his physical limit on gear.  And that's okay with me.

2.  I've yet to fall on gear but have had many moments of committing to falling on gear (didn't think I'd stick the move, went for it, ended up getting it).  Tricams always make me feel great.  I climb in Eldo where they're quite helpful though.  In general I trust passive gear more because I know it won't potentially walk when I move about it.

Artem Vasilyev wrote:

I agree. There is a reason they are typically ommitted from racks on climbers who are attempting anything from 5.10 - 5.14. You can't really place them during a pumpy lieback sequence or while hanging off of a thin jam or hold. TCUs or a cam with a narrow head (such as totems or z4s) will also typically fit where ever a tricam would. 

Try telling that to some of the crusty locals here at Moore's Wall! 

tri cams are a cult thing , period. I have tons of experience with them but finnaly left them off my rack for good in 2016. 99.9% of the climbs that supposedly you can't protect without tri cams it's simply not true.  I eventually drifted twords gear that I find to be faster and easier to place and clean. 

I like bringing tricams on long multi pitches but save them for my anchor to help save a cam that I need for the next pitch. Tricams are hard to place in active mode unless you have a near no hand stance, or if your Greg Lowe.

They are also nice for bail gear a lot cheaper then leaving a cam.

Deven Lewis wrote: Tricams are hard to place in active mode unless you have a near no hand stance, or if your Greg Lowe.

The stiff, new style Evos are incredibly easy to place one handed but you often still need two hands to remove them.

Nick Goldsmith wrote:

tri cams are a cult thing , period. 

If you climb a lot on pocketed limestone like I do, tri cams are a smart thing, period.

Auden Alsop wrote:

In agreement with most of your post, but this is not true. I simply cannot get pumped on 5.8, no matter how long or steep, even if haven’t been on a rope in months. Reason being that every hold is a jug for me. If OP gets stronger, while still keeping some endurance routes in the mix, he will have less of an issue on routes that are currently pumpy.

Come to North Carolina, I'll bet we can get you pumped on a 5.8! ;)

Most of the pocketed limestone I have climbed is pretty well bolted ;) I do however find that modern cams work just fine in those pockets.  I had a full rack of tricams in the mid 80s. The 90s into the 2000s I had whittled it down to just the red and pink.  In the Tetons  2016 I stripped the red and pink off my rack to save weight. they never made it back on.... Not one single incident since then where I was thinking  ohh gee, I wish  I had a tricam right now... 

I always carry a black, pink and red as they weigh next to nothing, but don't often place them out of consideration for my seconds. Still, I value them for their utility and reliability!

I don't carry anything that i don't often place. 

Think it's worthwhile for a new trad climber to learn to use tricams?

Greg Sidberry wrote: 1. I prefer to protect vs run out. But can see this being an issue on harder routes 5.9 or greater. What do you do?

You did not describe your rack so maybe you got it covered?

What I noticed was that the pro became trickier or smaller: micro cams, ball nuts, careful assessment of upcoming terrain, etc... And bolts became more common.

Others more versed in harder grades will have good input. :)

And there will always be run out routes out there at any grade - just got to make self-appropriate decisions. 

I carry black, pink, red, and brown and usually place at least one on every pitch. I've fallen on the brown and the pink and they worked perfectly and cleaned relatively easily after. 

Brad Larson wrote:

Think it's worthwhile for a new trad climber to learn to use tricams?

I'd say no, with the word new being key here

IMO trad is pretty complex already and there's a lot of master already. Getting half-decent jams in, reading the route, risk management, placing good gear (nuts/cams), getting efficient & developping good judgement... I'm not saying it's useless. Maybe I'm a really a huge gumby, but I just feel that even after my 3rd season trad climbing (and 5-6 sport climbin outdoors before that), my to-do list of stuff to get decent at is already long enough. Just going by what brings added value, others things would have to go first. Sure one can learn more than one thing at once, however there's a limit to the number of things one can effectively focus on.

Somewhat depends on where you climb I guess, I've heard some places make tricams go a long ways, so YMMV.