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First climb @ Mt Rainier+Mt Baker
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Hi, I am planning to climb Mt baker and Mt rainier in the summer. I don't have a ton of experience with moutaineering so this would be a starting point. Does anyone here have some experience with this? I am pretty lost in terms of the gear I should have and how to start my training for the same. Gear: I do have the list, I do know what I'm looking for, but with such high investments I am looking to get some advice before making purchases. Since this is a first, should I just rent a bunch of stuff Instead of buying? Training: I did not grow up in a consistent staying active environment so hiking/going to the gym or activities of such sort are something I took up over the past few years. Mountaineering would be a step up from all that and I have also never trained for something before. What kind of routine is suggested for the same? Thanks, -Piyusha |
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If you are going guided I would suggest renting since this is your first time and you might end up hating it. As far as fitness goes, I'm sure your guiding company has a rudimentary training plan they could help you out with. You want to start running as soon as possible, as well as a basic level of strength. Throw in some weighted stair climbs and you should do ok. However like I said, just ask your guide. |
Kameron Mccall wrote: I did enjoy climbing Shasta this past summer. I'm sure Rainier is way more technical than that, but the one thing I was dreading was not having the right gear for it. Especially in terms of sleeping bag- I get cold very easily so seems like buying a warmer bag for mountaineering wouldn't go waste? It certainly is a guided mountaineering course. I'll make sure to reach out to them. |
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I haven't climbed any of those peaks, but have slowly been preparing for similar trips over the last couple of seasons. One option to consider is renting a winter bag--Feathered Friends in Seattle does this: https://featheredfriends.com/pages/rentals.. That'll save you some money up front, and you can make sure you've picked the right weight of bag before you buy. I also sleep cold (weighing in at 125lbs. probably doesn't help), and I've always had trouble sleeping in near-freezing or below-freezing temperatures. I often seem to plan car-camping trips in November, or backpacking in October--it's great that there's fewer people around but getting some sleep makes everything more enjoyable. I ended up springing for a Western Mountaineering 10 degree bag for these trips and future summer mountaineering. Seems to be about right for me--last November I was camping down in the San Rafael Swell, and it got cold enough for water bottles to freeze solid overnight (maybe 20F?), but I was toasty without even wearing all my layers or a hat! I could actually sleep in, instead of crawling out of the tent shivering at first light to do some jumping jacks just to stay alive. In any case, it's worth considering that a good warm sleeping bag might open up other more mundane possibilities like stretching out the season for backpacking, or saving on hotels for weekend climbing trips when the weather is colder. One consideration here is the material of the bag, both the fill and the shell. The bag I bought is down (lighter, warmer, just better--unless it gets damp) and doesn't have a waterproof shell, which some winter bags do. For multi-day trips, that could be a liability, but I wanted more flexibility rather than the warmest possible thing I might ever make use of. I haven't tried it, but apparently it works quite well to cover a down bag with a light synthetic quilt, so that any condensation ends up in the synthetic layer, which can dry faster than the down, and won't lose it's loft as easily. |
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I've used a phantom zero degree on Rainer twice and it was perfect! Moisture is a problem, but with a good 4 season tent you should be able to mitigate it. I would hold off and stalk the used section here on MP and you might find all of your clothing and sleeping bag here at greatly reduced rate. Being a member of the AAC will also score you good deals. Have fun and be safe. |
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Buy the book Training For the New Alpinism, go to the website Uphillathlete.com (run by the authors of TFTNA) and read everything there. I also use their training plans and highly recommend them. Gear wise definitely rent the first time. REI has a rental program, your guide service probably does too. When making decisions always talk to your guide service first. It is in their best interest to give you the best chance of success. |
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buy your own boots, rent everything else from the guide company. I've seen many clients on that mountain with uncomfortable rental boots causing all sorts of blisters and pains |
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Hey there, If you're looking to invest and purchase gear to get into mountaineering/alpinism of any kind, talk to THE BEST guides in your area. Not every guide outfit is built the same, but there are certainly those that stand out as the most knowledgeable and invested in the growth and safety of the sport. When it comes to exact gear, it's all a matter of preference and placement. If you're climbing in the PNW, research what materials work best for the climate. I prefer merino wool/wool blend insulation layers with synthetic jackets and sleeping bags, under bomber GTX shells. The climbing gear should be rented your first couple of guided trips so that you can take note of what you prefer using/ find yourself using more frequently, safely and proficiently. Once you have a good idea of what tools and hardware you'll utilize, then start shopping. If the items need replacing or tuning after testing them in the field, there are consignment stores and craigslist. Sell em and/or replace em. This is part of the process. There is no "one suggestion fits most" besides the importance of safety. I STRONGLY ADVISE not going out and winging it with information and arguments you've consumed from Mountain Proj or the like, and hoping for the best. This is your life (and the lives of those around you, including your partners, SAR and first responders), after all, and if you want to start big with big objectives, personalized and professional instruction is worth every penny. If you can't foot the bill of a guide service, seek mentorship, learn with intent and use your best judgement. Climbing partners are just as important as the quality and integrity of the rock, snow, ice or whatever medium you're scaling. As for the training, I second the above mentioned Uphill Athlete comment. Steve House and Scott Johnston know their shit, have lived the shit and shared a shit storm of incredible knowledge with us mortals for next-to-nothing. Get a chest strap HR monitor and the Training Peaks app with their 8 week program and STICK TO IT! It works. Again, this is no gym-to-crag rendeveuz you're embarking on here. If you're serious about mountaineering, don't skimp. I wish you the best and hope to see you on a big hill someday. Cheers, Dylan |
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I'll offer a third voice in support of Uphill Athlete and the manual Training for the New Alpinism as I specifically used it to train up for a course on Mt. Baker in 2016 and even though I didn't dedicate near as much time to training as I wished due to work obligations I still felt like I could have run a couple of laps up and down the mountain. Fitness is really the most important thing for a non-technical objective like Baker via Easton. For example, one person on the trip bailed due to lack of fitness after getting rather crushed on the approach to the base of Baker and another spent the summit day vomiting from the effort. Having prepped for it from a fitness standpoint I could enjoy the views and really had a blast the whole trip. After seeing that the Uphill Athlete materials helped prepare me really well - even without being able to fully stick to the plan - I decided to get serious and commit more fully to training as my work schedule opened up. At the end of 2018 I created a 12-week transition period using Training for the New Alpinism and moved from that into a 20-week ultra-running plan (also from Uphill Athlete). Just over halfway through the plan my objective was cancelled due to COVID-19 so I took some recovery time and restarted the 20 week cycle but this time created a sort of hybrid program using the running base and building workouts for alpinism (from the book) into the schedule (ie. upper body general strength and specific strength, upper body muscular endurance, hangboarding, ARC training) as I now have plans to return to the PNW do to Shuksan (most likely) and have some other alpine rock climbs I am eyeing. I can definitely attest to the quality of materials those guys have made available. Probably the most surprising thing I've noticed from focused training is the ability to rapidly recover from big efforts - it's not just being able to go out and go long uphill - it's the ability to go out and do it all again the next day and the next and not feel like you've been run over by a truck. A combination of good base fitness and having high quality instructors will set you up for success. If you come in with a high level of fitness that will give you a big safety margin as you'll be able to focus on learning (assuming you'll be getting some sort of professional instruction - as you should), picking up on route finding skills, learning to watch for/identify objective hazards, etc instead of struggling to take each step. From a gear standpoint - the guide services all have comprehensive lists and for most things the specifics of what you get are more a matter of personal preference (hence why renting some stuff is probably good on the front end as those above have recommended). There are a couple specific things I'd point out that I don't think those sorts of gear lists make clear; 1) I would buy the best (read warmest and lightest) air-pad you can afford (I use a Thermarest NeoAir Xtherm) because you definitely want to sleep as well as you can (in my opinion this is at least as important as your choice of bag and probably more important to be honest when sleeping on snow). For what it's worth - I used a lightweight 30 degree synthetic bag on Baker and was plenty warm. 2) for a PNW peak where you'll be up there for a couple days (like a Rainier or Baker 4 or 6 day course) - bring 4 pairs of gloves - a couple pairs of lighter weight gloves for rope handling and warmer weather and a couple of pairs of warmer waterproofs - if you're on a course you (should) spend some time dangling inside a crevasse, building snow anchors, practicing self arrests, etc. (all wet activities) - being the PNW it also could rain on you while you're on a glacier (I had a solid day of hard rain while on Baker in June). You'll need to have at least one other dry pair of gloves to swap into after those sorts of days. One light pair and one warm pair really doesn't give you much safety/comfort margin and cold and wet fingers are uncomfortable at best and potentially dangerous. 3) good sunscreen for your lips and nose (including the underside of your nose) with enough for frequent reapplications like Dermatone with z-cote - otherwise if you have good weather you'll be at risk for a pretty righteous sunburn - I have done pretty well in the past - but learned about the need to reapply to the underside of the nose the hard way.... snow reflects the sunlight up it turns out... |
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I would take the gear list from the guide services with a grain of salt. They make a list that will work without knowing what the conditions will be. If you asked for a car recommendation they would probably say a Land Rover or Jeep Wrangler. In truth a Prius would work 98% of the time. Their lists are filled with heavy, over-engineered gear that most of us with experience would never carry. They may or may not have relationships with those companies to peddle their stuff too. If you actually want gear you will use again and again here's the real list for Ranier, Baker, the Andes sub-6,000m, The alps, the Himalayas sub-5,000m, Alaska sub 12,000ft etc: Good socks (wool or synthetic) Good base layer bottoms (wool or sythetic mid-weight, maybe lightweight, but NOT expedition weight) Softshell pants (optional if funds are limited) Lightweight full-side-zip waterproof hardshell pants (sub 1 lbs, these can be used in place of softshell pants but not vice versa) Optional: If you are a cold person then a thin midlayer pant, like a stretchy fleece (polartech power stretch or equivalent) Bottom layers done! Top layer: Beanie Lightweight baseball hat Buff or equivalent balaclava Sun Hoody (synthetic only) Base layer top (synthetic or wool) Patagonia R1 or equivalent ("grid fleece", "waffle fleece", it should have stretch. Hood preferred but not essential) a standard "fleece jacket" will totally work but bunches a lot as a mid-layer Hardshell jacket (1 lbs or less, pit zips highly recommended) Down Jacket Gloves (myriad of options will work) Lightweight mittens That's your top layers done! Gear: Boots. If you rent get some insoles (superfeet or equivalent) now! Break in the insoles so they fit your feet perfectly and size your rental boots with the insoles inside the liners. This will make Rental boots 1,000,000 times more comfortable. I've done this all over the world and never had a blister in rental boots. If you are going to buy strongly consider buying used. For anything overnight above snow level a double boots is nice, for everything that is 1 day in the snow or less plastics / double boots are overkill. Look at the la Sportivas and the Scarpas. Crampons, most any will do provided they fit your boots well. Anti-snow ("anti-bot") plates on the bottom are essential! Ice axe (pretty much any will do) Harness (pretty much any will do) 4 locking carabiner, a belay device, 2 snow pockets, and 2 prussiks Helmet Headlamp Dark sunglasses Rope (any half or twin rated rope will do, these are usually around 8mm thick for length a 37-40m works for a team of 2-3, a 50-70m works for a team of 4-5) 40-60L backpack First aid kit Phone / camera Optional: ice screws, pulleys Aside from your shelter/food/kitchen this is all the gear you will need. Steve House (of uphill athlete) uses a clothing system similar to this all over the planet and only the only thing that changes is adding a few more layers or beefier jackets in the winter or for high altitude. It's super versatile. |
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Training: whatever routine you can do and stick to at home is great. It's more important to put a heavy pack on and climb uphill. If you start putting in 10-30 miles per week for 3 months before your climb you will have no trouble with the physical exertion. Altitude is something everyone handles differently. There's no training for this. What you can do to maximize your chances of success are you get up high and spend the night in the 2 weeks leading up to your climb. The higher you sleep the more your body will produce red blood cells that will help you. Stay very well hydrated for 2 days before your climb and very well hydrated on the climb. Bring some snacks that you LOVE and could eat even if you have zero appetite and feel bad (swedish fish for me). My #1 advice to you is to find someone experienced to join you and mentor you. Yes, you can pay for classes (they are awesome and help a ton) but being able to have your minor questions answered, having someone help your I through buying all the gear, give you one on one attention, managing your progress, and having someone with you that can evaluate conditions is invaluable. These people are out there - find them. |
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I would recommend going to RMI’s site and poking around and subscribing to their newsletter. They have a ton of practical training related content that is angled towards a first climb of that nature. They also recommend good individual pieces of gear if you look at their equipment lists. (I’m fairly certain you can also rent their gear.) |
Jim Roache wrote: Shasta is not a comparable climb to Rainier or Baker. It's a good place to train for a Rainier and test your gear out but it lacks the complex glacier travel of either Baker or Rainier. Shasta is more comparable to Mt. Adams, Hood, St Helens - all one days climbs without with few crevasses and minimal overall challenges (by their standard routes). There are people who climb Shasta with jeans, tennis shoes, and no ice axe. Rainier and Baker are in a different leagu and require more skills, more knowledge, more gear, and are usually climbed over 2 days. Buying used can be a great way to save money if you know what you want, can evaluate the condition of the items, and have ample time to search. New climbers usually lack this knowledge, this is an area where a mentor could be very helpful and help save you some money. Rental is a better idea for most newer mountaineers getting started on higher level objectives like Rainier or Baker. |
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Another one saying buy Training for the uphill athlete. Good stuff. Another thing you can do Is make something else hurt every day. Sit ups today, squats tomorrow, curls the next, etcetera until your abs hurt the least and start over. Thats only like 10-30 minutes a day. Just build strength every where in your body. Run probably 3 times a week and a long ass buster hike every week or 9 days. You can not be too fit. Start this slow however and take breaks when your body says to. You can't keep the crazy pace I outlined forever without getting injured but you can go at it with that motivation. If you have a 9 mile run planned but you are completely gassed at 5, it's ok to call it, take note, and adjust the plan accordingly. Find a tread mill on craigslist or from a friends mom. I paid $0 for mine and it is on my porch outside so I have zero excuse to not get cardio in. It helps to workout in the weather and learn what layers of clothes you need for what temp. As for gear rent lots. Buying your own sleeping bag is a good option if you know you are a cold sleeper. Boots are another decent place to invest as well if you are confident you will be doing this for a while. That said when I climbed Rainier the freezing level was too low for singe boots and I had to rent doubles. I got blisters on the way down. Small price to pay for the experience though. Good luck, embrace the suffer now, and have fun on your climbs. |
Jim Roache wrote: No shit. Folks are taking this shit way too seriously. To the point that it ain't fucking fun. For the OP go for some hikes that is all the "training" ones needs for either of the standard routes on Rainer. The rest is fucking overkill, with one exception you are living at sea level. So try to get some time hiking at altitude. Hiking Mt. Rose at Tahoe is a good hike sans snow or with skis. When you show up on the hill camp for a night as high as possible before hiking to high camp. If doing the DC spend a night at Muir, then go up to Ingraham Flats for the night. On can do similar for Baker but going up to the high camp directly is not so bad. The difference between Baker and Rainier and say Shasta are the cracks (The route finding is not an issue during the primary season as there is a damn cattle path). Getting a bit of crack practice is good. Once can do that low down on the Coleman Glacier on Baker. That is where a mentor, club, or guide can come in handy. That is more of an issue than the gear. |
Allen Sanderson wrote: Failing to climb the mountain you are paying money to climb is no fucking fun. With out the fitness you will fail. Heart and determination only gets you so far. |
Logan Hugmeyer wrote: Re-read what I wrote. I did not say sit on your ass then get off the couch. I said Folks are taking this shit way too seriously. That is the fitness. A generally fit person can schlep their carcass up the standard route on Shasta, Rainier, Hood, Baker, etc. People have been doing that for hundreds of years without training books and regimes. And best of all having fun. |
Allen Sanderson wrote: Second draft is just a shite as the first. People also die on these mountains every year and failure is common. You are still lumping mountains of differing difficulties and challenges together. Yes have fun, yes most of it is fitness, no this isn't something to be taken lightly. You need some skills too, failing that a solid guide or mentor is needed. We get your point, a third draft won't help. |
Scott D wrote: Would not need so many posts if people could comprehend. Re-read what I wrote. I did not say take the fitness lightly. All I said was don't take it so fucking seriously as some are suggesting. The fitness needed is not all that different for any these hills for the standard routes. And I did mention technical skills like cracks. So no I did not lump mountains of differing difficulties and challenges together except in the context fitness. Sheesh ... |
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I didn’t read all the lengthy responses, so apologies if it’s been mentioned, but literally all the guide companies publish their equipment lists, and either they will rent what you don’t have or direct you to an outfitter to rent from. They will also do an equipment check on the day of arrival and require you to rent or buy any gear that you are missing or gear that is sub standard. If the guides take you up with improper equipment you become a liability to the whole team. |
Mike S wrote: Thanks Mike, Yeah based on all the responses, it seems safer to rent some of the stuff for my first climb and get a feel for it. |
